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Joined: Feb 2002
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That screw shows the gun's history alright. History with a bad screwdriver. I think I would have bit the bullet and fixed it. No offense, it's a great gun.

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Eightbore I do fully agree with you now though I was trying to point out that at the time we Brits where only interested in making the gun usable and not going down the road of a full restoration well the gun in question at that time was a scrapper and actually not spending ant money on unless you where a young man like myself with more money than sense willing to take a risk on the gun being made workable. A couple of years back I did visit a gunsmith with thoughts of having new pins made and engraved.. Now I do not know if the top maker factor of charging for work is prevalent on your side of the pond but it is alive and well here. They take one look at the name on the gun and the price is adjusted upward accordingly, the cost went to the point that my thoughts went to "the gun has worked flawlessly for all this time with the original pins" given that I was not about to start on the path of diminishing returns because the cost of the work would not be recouped when I pass the gun on to the next owner. Also I have realized that a new owner of an item always wants to put their stamp on their latest purchase, so they can have the pleasure of having them replaced . Well I spent a good deal of money in the 1960s to put the gun in the condition it is now,


The only lessons in my life I truly did learn from where the ones I paid for!
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"They take one look at the name on the gun and the price is adjusted upward accordingly,"

Priceless quote.

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[quote=keith

Glacierjohn, I saw that nice original Parker VH you just bought for the Buy-it-Now price. I don't think you would have been so quick to pull the trigger on that purchase if it was an obviously refinished gun, and I think that was a wise decision. Examples like that just are not that common, although a lot of VH Parkers were built. It would have been interesting to see how high it would have went if the auction went full course. You are now the current custodian, and it is up to you whether to keep it in prime original condition, or to alter it or wear it out. If you choose the latter course, you will help to increase the value of the ever smaller pool of unmolested Parkers.[/quote]

My OP was mostly an observation and questioning why. I learned a few things, one, the same rule does apply in Britain but that doesn’t mean they don’t “freshen up” their guns. Regarding that VH, it’s not mint condition just very good condition, which is perfect for me as I expect it to become my daily driver duck hunting gun. I may put a period correct pad on it to lengthen the lop and store the original but plate, I’ll try it on with my duck hunting parka to see if that’s even necessary.

The most controversial thing I’m considering, is opening up that one .45 choke to something closer to .30, what are your thoughts on that? Then I’d have .30 and .35, but backwards. Tighter on right, but ostensibly still full and full. Thoughts?

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Originally Posted by Glacierjohn
The most controversial thing I’m considering, is opening up that one .45 choke to something closer to .30, what are your thoughts on that? Then I’d have .30 and .35, but backwards. Tighter on right, but ostensibly still full and full. Thoughts?

That's always a tough call, but I am generally against making any alterations to high condition original vintage shotguns. The higher the condition, the less I'd be inclined to make any changes. There are plenty of lower condition or non-original guns out there that really can't have their value hurt so badly. Many here will give the reply that it is your gun, so you have the right to do whatever you wish to it. That is true, but that is what also makes the pool of unmolested guns smaller with each passing year, and increases the value of high original condition specimens.

It is true that the British often freshen up their guns. But there are tons of American guns that are redone too... and often they would have been better left alone. It seems we just don't have the same percentage of gunsmiths here who are competent enough to properly restore a double, and that doesn't even consider the really bad Bubba do-it-yourself jobs. Then you see those fantastic restorations done by guys like CJO, and it becomes hard to say it shouldn't ever be done.

Me, I'd just buy one that had the chokes I wanted, and keep the other gun original. Once that metal is removed, there is nobody that can put it back. There is also the chance that harmonics or reamer chatter could pop a rib solder joint. Then we also see the complaints from guys who had their choke opening job botched so that the patterns are not regulated. But no matter what you decide, you should shoot some different loads at the pattern board to see actual performance. You may find that it is just fine as is with certain loads. You may also find that .030" and .035" chokes are too tight for steel shot. I am not a duck hunter, so won't comment on things I don't know.


A true sign of mental illness is any gun owner who would vote for an Anti-Gunner like Joe Biden.

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You’re right about the steel shot, but bismuth works well, acts pretty much like lead. I started duck hunting in the mid 60s with a pump shotgun before choke tubes. A 30” full choke barrel was pretty standard for ducks, so I’m not too freaked at the thought of full and full. I will definitely pattern both barrels with fives, sixes and 7-1/2, but I’m pretty sure .45 is way too tight, even with spreader loads.

Regarding just buying another gun, I’m not rich and married to boot lol, this gun is in good condition but certainly not mint so I wouldn’t feel guilty using it in rough conditions. I would never buy a gun and not use it. My hope is to own too fine shotguns, this one for waterfowl and I hope to find a nice light 16 or 12 for pheasants. My two current guns are an LC Smith featherweight 12 that weighs 6#-9oz for pheasants and a Sterlingworth Pin gun for ducks...

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I should never suggest what people should do about the tight chokes in their guns, having made a mistake with one once myself. But, since you asked I will relate my feelings about the two times I had a vintage double's chokes modified.

First time was a 32" barreled, beautiful, graded S X S that had the original tight chokes, in the .035" range. A fine duck gun as it was, though restocked. I had both chokes relieved to .020" to use it on clays, and have regretted that decision for many years. I'm doing penance, of sorts, for my mistake.

The other is a 20 ga. Fox Sterlingworth Ejector that I traded for, intending it to become my go to quail and woodcock gun. I had the chambers lengthened to 2 3/4" and had Dean Harris open the chokes to .006" right and .016" left. I added a Silvers pad to get the LOP right for me, and faced it with a piece of leather from my Grandad's old defunct leather hunting coat. First two shells fired out of it on the first covey rise netted two quail with the right barrel and one with the left. I've used it enough in the past year on quail to know that what I did to it was spot on, for me. Thursday afternoon we hunted with it again and I went 8 quail for 9 shots fired. No regrets.

So, I'm left with no grounds to recommend anything to anyone about this subject. I do know this, though. This old boy will never open the tight chokes on a fine old duck gun again, for any reason. My wants and wishes are just too apt to change in time, and there's no way to put those barrels back to their original condition once mucked with. If I had known then what I know now about using spreaders to open the patterns I wouldn't even entertain the thought of putting a reamer to it.


May God bless America and those who defend her.
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Lots for a reader to learn in your story Stan. Open chokes certainly have a place, especially in a light upland gun but you are quite correct in that putting the choke back in place is much harder than removing it. Soldered in choke tubes are an option as is back boring if you have adequate wall thickness.

It sounds like Glacier John has a good understanding of his needs and choke constrictions. I would agree with him that .045" is more choke than is needed for the vast majority of shotguning.


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Booking African hunts, firearms import services

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Steve, do you have any pics of the muzzles of a gun that has had a permanent choke tube soldered in? I've always been curious about them, mostly wondering how obvious they are.

SRH


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Stan, I do not have pictures to share.

I can tell you that the machining on the Teague liners I was the rep for was superb and the joint was barely detectable. Others issues prevented the lining process from becoming sustainable but the joints were wonderfully done.


http://www.bertramandco.com/
Booking African hunts, firearms import services

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