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Joined: Dec 2020
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Sidelock
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Sidelock

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Dear Campero,

The BNP mark signifies Birmingham Nitro Proof, so no worries there.

The viewers mark to the top left of the bore size marking is a pair of crossed sceptres (the original Birmingham proof mark from 1814, when they adopted what had been the private proof mark of the well known Birmingham maker Ketland). They look more like crossed daggers.

The 1 in the bottom quadrant indicates that it was viewed after proof by the senior examiner.

The letter in the left hand quadrant shows the year it was re-proofed, A for 1950 through to Z in 1974 but they skipped I for some (or no?) reason.

On your gun the year letter is not very clear, and it looks like the punch was not held very straight. It looks like I, which was not used, but could be L for 1960?

There was a double Wiggan and Elliott shotgun in the last Southams auction sale. Unfortunately they delete their online catalogue after the sale ends but I am pretty sure that it was a 24 bore, and that there was also a lot of 100? 24 bore cases or cartridges. If it didn’t sell it will no doubt appear in their sale in March. If you contact them guns@southamsauction.co.uk I am sure that they will be happy to send you a printed copy of the December 2020 catalogue if they have any left.

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The barrel when first measured would have been between .563 and .571 so marked correctly as 26 bore. The chamber size is marked in the lozenge mark as 28 which is the cartridge it is designed for. I think the 20 with the overstamp will have been a mistake then rectified by someone picking up the wrong number punch. It does happen occasionally and not all that uncommon for marks to be missed off or a wrong one added and struck out when noticed. There are a high volume of guns going through the Proof House daily and human error will be encountered. It was marked for black powder initially on the underside of the barrel and later re-proofed for nitro. If in doubt send photos to the Birmingham Proof House and they will advise. It's what they're there for and always ready to help. Lagopus…..

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Dear Campero and Lagopus,

I note from the current Eley Shooter’s Diary ( Eley Hawk having at last stopped emblazoning the misleading and embarrassing title ELEY HAWK SHOOTERS DIARY across the cover) that there is a note which reads:-
“*Please note that the British Proof Authority will not give guidance on pre-1954 marks and recommends re-proof of such guns”.

No doubt a policy motivated more by liability concerns than a desire to generate more business.

A gun submitted for re-proof could be blown up, but it might also be rejected for such reasons as not having chamber dimensions which do not accord with the latest dimensions. If rejected it becomes out of proof and unsalable.

Campero, by all means as Lagopus suggests ask the Birmingham proof house for an opinion on the marks.

Should they suggest submitting it to re-Proof, either there or in Spain consider those risks.

If it was my gun, and the bore is not seriously pitted and still measures between .579 and .587 inch at 9 inches from the breech, I would not let it anywhere near a Proof house.

Your gun bears on re-proof the post-1954 marks, and I believe that was when the lozenge with the chamber size would have been impressed and corrected.

Bear in mind that the bore sizes go up in steps (.710, .719, .728/9 and .740 or 13, 13/1, 12 and 12/1 in the case of a 12 bore) and that when it was re-proofed the actual internal diameter at 9 inches may have been exactly .579 or a few thousands of an inch more.

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Sidelock
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That looks like an interesting single barrel. Can we see pics of the rest of the gun? Specs like weight, lop and barrel length?


The world cries out for such: he is needed & needed badly- the man who can carry a message to Garcia
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Sidelock
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Possibly started life as a 28 bore made for thin brass cases, in which case the barrel could have been originally bored at 26 - based on the original proof marks.
When later submitted for re-proof (nitro) - the man with the hammer and stamps was obviously confused /hungover/or just having a bad day. Unless the nitro proof marks are spurious- which is not unheard of.
Presumably the barrel was built as a cylinder but does it show any alteration now?

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Originally Posted by lagopus
The barrel when first measured would have been between .563 and .571 so marked correctly as 26 bore. The chamber size is marked in the lozenge mark as 28 which is the cartridge it is designed for. I think the 20 with the overstamp will have been a mistake then rectified by someone picking up the wrong number punch. It does happen occasionally and not all that uncommon for marks to be missed off or a wrong one added and struck out when noticed. There are a high volume of guns going through the Proof House daily and human error will be encountered. It was marked for black powder initially on the underside of the barrel and later re-proofed for nitro. If in doubt send photos to the Birmingham Proof House and they will advise. It's what they're there for and always ready to help. Lagopus…..

Agree.

It is important to understand that mistakes can be made at the proof houses in stamping guns. Apparently, some are discovered before they leave the premises and some are not. I owned a reproofed gun (Birmingham proof) that on one barrel was stamped a bore inside diameter (metric) that was greater by a significant extent than what was the true measured inside diameter. the other barrel inside diameter was stamped correctly (different inside diameter than the wrong stamped barrel) so it was not a matter of stamping the right barrel for the left barrel inside diameter. This mistake occurred less than 20 years ago.

Last edited by bushveld; 01/30/21 12:27 PM.
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Was 24 bore common in Germany? I've been calling my Janeck buscheflinte a 28 bore for years, but guess now should have been calling it a 24 bore as .58 Minies fit so nicely. What is metric equivalent?

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campero Offline OP
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Thanks a lot again for all the information!

The shotgun has a 77'5 cm barrel and a sidelever system.

[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]
[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]
[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]

PD: I'm from Spain.


28 ga, hammerguns and all shotguns and rifles made by hands.
Waidmannsheil 🌿📯
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SKB Online Content
Sidelock
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A very nice looking single barrel, enjoy it!


http://www.bertramandco.com/
Booking African hunts, firearms import services

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campero Offline OP
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Thanks, SKB. I love this gun and I hunt with "her" because is difficult and getting wild small game is a challence.

What a pity don't have RST cartridges in Spain.

Someone can tell me the Birmingham Proof House mail? I don't find it in his web.


28 ga, hammerguns and all shotguns and rifles made by hands.
Waidmannsheil 🌿📯
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