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Franz Thiele Cape Gun - 8x72R x 16ga

Hello all,
I shared with you my June 2019 Father's Day present to myself - from myself about the Cogswell & Harrison Cape Gun.

In that post I mentioned this Franz Thiele Cape Gun. (Teplitz, Czech - Austria Hungary) This one was a Father's Day present to myself -from myself 2 years earlier in June, 2017. It was also purchased from Kirby Hoyt at the Great Northern Side-by-Side Classic in Medford, Wisconsin. As mentioned, Kirby comes to Wisconsin all the way from Washington State, and brings with him an assortment of very interesting pieces. Sometimes I think he does this just to tempt me - and its been working. I've bought half-a-dozen guns from Kirby and I've always been very pleased.

The C&H was a Shotgun/Rifle combination - this Thiele, is the opposite, being a Rifle/Shotgun combination. Interestingly, the rifle barrel has a set-trigger feature, and a single blade rear site that can be folded flat into the rib so as to not obstruct your view when shooting the shotgun barrel. Although 8x72R ammo is a little hard to come by, it was easy to neck-down a 9.3x72R which is readily available.

Specs are: 27" bbl - 6 lbs 9 oz - 13-7/8" LOP - Flip-up Rear Sight - Set Trigger (rifle)
Markings are: "F.Thiele in Teplitz" - "9515.01" (old marking) - "1648.g" "847.234.27" "Nicht Fur Kugel" (not for ball) - "16.0" "8.3"
Features are: overall engraving, case colored action, scalloped buffalo horn grip cap, buffalo horn butt plate, lever forend release, sling swivels

This Cape gun is a testament that Continental Guns could rival the English trade in Quality. Although Franz Thiele was a Master Gun Builder during the 1800's into the pre-war period, no records exist to find the History about this interesting piece. Therefore, I've started my own History, and the last picture shows that this quality gun is still very capable - some 120 years after being made.

As always, your comments are welcome.





















..... continued .....

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..... continued .....



















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This viscous beast came snooping around during the range test of this gun.


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The 1st pass thru the Weipert proof facility was in 1901 followed by what looks to be a re-work in 1927, with a subsequent pass thru the Weipert proof facility. The tubeset weighed 1648 grammes. This example may also support the theory that the Bohemian Rampant Lion was used in 1927 per the stamp below the Weipert Nitro stamp. Many of the older marks were worked off..... But a better image of the stamps forward of the flats might net some info.

It is an Anson & Deeley Body Action and I would assume made by Gustav Bittner, although I don't see any marks right off but I am the custodian of a couple similar examples bearing his name.


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I would say that Franz Thiele of Teplitz-Schönau(CZ) was purely a firearms merchant.


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Too, I am sure the ledger entries of the Weipert Proof Facility are still in existence & some information lies therein. I seem to remember them to be on their historical website but I do not believe the respond well to an inquiry in English?


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http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat....amp;Search=true

Some Weipert banter between Axel E. & I on NitroExpress some time ago:

>>....so Springer`s merely bought in the rifles, already mounted, proofed and finished, for resale. Pre-WW1 Austria did not recognize foreign proof, so every imported gun had to be reproofed. To me, the Austrian proof seems to be the Vienna NPv one instead of the Weipert NPw.
BTW, last Saturday I passed through Vejprty, the former Weipert. It is a small, former industrial town in terrible state directly behind the German-Czech border. Only a small creek, the Pöhlbach, seperates it from German Bärenstein. In 1939 Weipert had about 11000 mostly German inhabitants. Due to the "ethnic cleanup" of 1945, when more than 10000 of it's citizens were thrown out of Czechoslovakia, wide parts and most factories are in ruins or torn down. Vejprty's population is now 3000, among them about 400 Germans who returned after 1995.<<

>>Of course Mike(sic-Hammer) contacted the Vienna proofhouse. As you may gather from my post, Weipert does not exist any more, even the adress of Fückert and the location of the former proofhouse is forgotten since 1945. Weipert had about 50 factories before WW1, making all sorts of metal, textile, glas and other goods. Many of them closed down during the 1920s-30s economic depressions, But most fell into disrepair after their owners and workers were expelled in 1945.<<


>>I read a "4" too. Up to 1918 it was 1-Ferlach, 2-Prague, 3-Weipert, 4-Vienna. After 1918 in Austria, one-headed eagle holding hammer and siccle, it was 1-Ferlach, 2-Vienna. In new-founded Czechoslovakia, Czech lion, it was 1-Prague, 2-Vejprty.
Weipert even met a worse fate than Zella-Mehlis, Suhl, St.Etienne or Birmingham: In those former gunmaking centers at least a few gunmakers are left and there are still people to remember the old times. Not so in Weipert/Vejprty: The entire population has been changed in 1945, and what was left of gunmaking was swallowed up by socialism and government agencies like Lovena. I doubt that the Weipert proofhouse files are available through Austria: In 1918 the Weipert proofhouse was taken over by Czechoslovakia as a running concern without a change of persons. 1945 Vejprty disappeared behind the iron courtain, the people who ran the proofhouse were gone. How can local Weipert files be found outside of Czech archives?<<


>>Maybe I should have posed the question in an alternate form or either I am confused as to the location/whereabouts of the Weipert ledgers, but I thought that they were either kept in the Weipert/Vejprty area, akin to the state of the info at the Zella-Mehlis museum, or they were transfered to either the Brno or Prague facility? Or were they transfered to the Wien facility? I've seen this site many times, http://www.cuzzs.cz/index.php?lang=en , but haven't made an attempt to contact them as I suspect they only respond to German language requests? Early on I had thought that the Weipert facility closed in 1945 but it appears it remained open until 1954.<<


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Yes, Nr. Neuberger, I am trying to draw you in & extract a bit of your knowledge?


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Originally Posted By: ellenbr
The 1st pass thru the Weipert proof facility was in 1901 followed by what looks to be a re-work in 1927, with a subsequent pass thru the Weipert proof facility. The tubeset weighed 1648 grammes. This example may also support the theory that the Bohemian Rampant Lion was used in 1927 per the stamp below the Weipert Nitro stamp. Many of the older marks were worked off..... But a better image of the stamps forward of the flats might net some info.

It is an Anson & Deeley Body Action and I would assume made by Gustav Bittner, although I don't see any marks right off but I am the custodian of a couple similar examples bearing his name.


Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Hello ellenbr,
Thanks for the reply.

I thank you for the information. I have attached a photo showing all the markings I could find on this gun.

Is it possible that this gun started life as a double barrel shotgun in 1901, and was later converted to a Cape Gun in 1927?


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