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I have the same problem with my reloads using Winchester primers with my early A grade 12 gauge Fox. It too is hard to open after firing these shells.

Shooting reloads with Remington, Fiocchi and Cheddite primers, the gun opens fine.

I measured the firing pin protrusion through the standing breech with the barrels off and both hammers down in the fired position. The firing pins are at the tips of the hammers.

Both firing pins measure about 0.060" extending past the standing breech. Other Fox's that I shoot, they extend about 0.050" and they will shoot those Winchester primed shells just fine.

With Fox doubles with the barrels off, it's easy to dry fire it and make that measurement. Put the barrels and fore end back on and recock the hammers. Can't do that with some guns, ala L. C. Smith.

If you can measure how far the firing pins extend past the standing breech on the problem gun, that may tell you something.

Annoying to say the least.

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I beg to differ regarding the L.C. Smith- if you have the handy tool available through the LCSCA gruppen, recocking the hammer axles is easy-- and it is a versatile little rascal, as you can decock the leaf springs with it, should you wish to detail strip the locks-- RWTF


When The Man In Black Comes Around- Rev: 6-8
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Sounds like the most logical answer...this only happens with Winchester Universal 20 ga. Any other time the easy solution would be don't shoot it.
With this ammo shortage Winchester Universal is the only game in town. I have another gun it works just fine in.

Winchester Universal is not so universal.

Last edited by HomelessjOe; 12/22/20 08:59 AM. Reason: FOXEY...you want to argue about LC Smith's go start your own thread.
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I would also suspect a bit of excessive firing pin protrusion from the standing breech face on the lower bbl.

I had Josef Jurjevic [one of the bast double-gun smith's of all time, IMHO] tell me back in the early 70's that one millimetre or .040" was the minimum you wanted for consistent ignition and that 1.5 mm or .060" was the outer limit & any more would cause firing pin drag, making most double guns hard to open after firing and for some, that outer limit might be too much.

Its easily checked dropping the hammers w/a block of very hard wood or the classic bit of horn held against the breech face and then using a feeler gauge held flat against the breech face next to the firing pin being measured.

I'd also give the nose of that pin a close inspection for any chips or irregularities. If any are noted and they are not deep, the pin should be removed and they should be stoned out smooth. It is also how one goes about reducing too much protrusion, should it be found the culprit.

I'm assuming the hard opening is only experienced with fired cartridges; is that correct?

Those are fun guns! I've a 20 of the same vintage bought new w/28" bbl.'s choked MOD & FULL and it has shot many limits of dove & large bags of feral pigeons w/ 7/8's oz. of #6's in the Federal Field loads w/the two-piece 'Pushin' Cushion' plastic wads and thousands of clay targets using #8 7/8's ounce reloads mostly, but also new CF WW AA's, and older Remington & Federal target loads in the years I've had it and I've never had the first issue w/it.

I've never fired any of the Winchester Universal white box ammunition in it that you are experiencing the opening issue with.

I did quit using the Remington 'Gun Club's' for reloading because of extraction issues experienced w/certain 20 ga. reloads in some std. weight 1100's. Those washed steel heads do not have the same type of memory as brass and they take more effort when resizing/de-priming when using single-stage loaders like a MEC. I'm only reloading the WW CF and AA HS hulls these days.

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Don’t know if steel has different memory or just has more friction than softer brass shell heads.

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Just fired shells.

I bought some 20ga. Winchester Super Target today at Walmart but left my 20 at home and shot my bOss 12 ga. today in preparation for the VerOnoa Cup.

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Which one of the Boss matched pair did you shoot jOe, the #1 gun, or #2?


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Had that happen with my Andrews when shooting some ammo with thin silvery bases. Looked like aluminum. Maybe Win. Game Loads. Might be wrong, but I attributed the hard opening to a worn extractor mechanism that caused the extractors to to override the soft thin rims.

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Originally Posted By: Run With The Fox
I beg to differ regarding the L.C. Smith- if you have the handy tool available through the LCSCA gruppen, recocking the hammer axles is easy-- and it is a versatile little rascal, as you can decock the leaf springs with it, should you wish to detail strip the locks-- RWTF

RWTF,

You are absolutely, 100% correct. If you have the L. C. Smith cocking tool, you can cock the hammer(s) and put the barrels back on the gun. You can do it too if you're handy with a screw driver.

As you're away from home to hunt some good grouse cover and you take your LCS out of its take down case. If the opening lever is centered and the SAFE is off and you touch one of the triggers, you won't get the barrels on to cock the gun.

If you don't have the LCS tool with you or a screw driver, you can leave the LCS in its case.

Thank you for suggesting that LCS tool to cock the hammers.

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Originally Posted By: buzz
Which one of the Boss matched pair did you shoot jOe, the #1 gun, or #2?


#1 Actually I gave the #2 gun to the charity HGEBHOHAS.

Pronounced Hge'bO'ass

Short for he's a big head arrogant azz and he just cant help it.

I know it sounds Arabic but really it stands for Help Get Eightbores
Head out his azz...some would say a waste of time and money.

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