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Originally Posted By: PALUNC
Stan, there is only one thing better than a Purdey is two Purdeys.


I have noticed that quite often one of the pair is in fabulous condition compared to the other. If a pair is so much better, why are they seldom worn equally?

Best,
Ted

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Originally Posted By: Stan
I wonder just how big the market for matched pairs really is, and surmise that it's shrinking all the time, maybe at a faster rate than for single vintage doubles. If I'm right, lower prices for them are to be expected rather than be a surprise, Purdey's or not.

SRH


The discussion and its ultimate issue is the value that a shooter or two shooters could have had in buying the pair of Purdeys noted on the Morphy auction--not how big or small the market is for pairs of best quality English guns. These Purdeys apparently sold for $30,750.00 plus 20% fee for a total price of $36,900.00 or $18,450.00 each. At the same time Graham MacKinlay has a similar pair of Purdeys made one year later for sale at his shop in Scotland for $63,175,00 or $31,587.50 each.

It is not rocket science to see the value if a couple of "good ole boys" who wanted to own a good condition Purdey went in together and bought such a pair that sold for such a bargain at Morphy's.

Now these Purdey's at Morphy's need to be sent over to the UK and chambered and proofed for 2 3/4" and even when you do that and pay for it, the two "good ole boys" would have guns that were at least $10,000.00 of real value in their hands versus what they would have had to pay in the UK. It is interesting to note that the Graham MacKinlays Purdey's are 2 1/2 inch chambers as well and need rechambering and reproof to my mind.

This is where the REAL value of buying pairs are in the market just now, and it is not just now, now, as I remember sitting on the sofa at the late Cyril Adams home 15 years ago and talking about how the real value of English pairs in the USA was selling them individually then.

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Buying a pair at auction with the intention of selling one on at a later date could be a way of acquiring a single gun at a favourable price I have heard of three matching guns being bought at auction one of which is sold to finance work on the other two.

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Not every pair is made simultaneously.
If you want book matched stocks, absolutely identical handling, and you can afford it, then order a pair.

I think Desirability Is a function of expected use as well, If you plan on Double gunning, then it's much Smoother with two identical firearms.

Everybody views this differently, but when the Red grouse are streaming down the hill, or gray partridges are absolutely exploding over the hedges, (and you can shoot all you want while the torrent lasts) It's a pretty special feeling to be using a matched pair.

It's not the American way, so it's less of a concern here.


Out there doing it best I can.
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The days of double gunning on grey partridge over English hedgerows are long gone. The GWCT quotes BTO figures of a 91% reduction from 1967 to 2010.
There may still be opportunities to double gun on french red legs but a team of single guns should be able to amass a number of birds that would satisfy anyone’s desire for a large bag.
A handful of estates may offer grey partridge shooting but days will be few ,bags will be small and days are probably private affairs not commercial.
Do you use your high pheasant 20s on the grouse and partridge?and have you had the chokes opened up for obvious reasons.

Thanks for the PM ClapperZapper you are an enthusiastic game shot for sure. Sorry that Covid has disrupted your plans for this season.

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Originally Posted By: bushveld
The pair of Purdey's (vintage 1929) with 30 inch barrels of excellent wall thickness and restocked to beautiful wood with 15"LPP that sold for 30 grand plus buyers fee demonstrates all that you had to say; not to mention that the David Sinnerton (two pairs) of 20 bores did not sell--the single 20 bore did.

I would like to know who owns those Sinnerton guns and put them up for sale. I doubt that he has made more than 20 guns in his name.

The jewel of the sale was the Watson Bros. O/U with Ken Hunt game scene engraving.


For me, the jewel of the sale was the Bertuzzi gull wing which sold for $64.5k vs estimate of $60-$90k. Well out of my league but it is fun to pretend winning a huge lottery.

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If I am to believe what I am seeing with English Best gun prices the ones I own has decreased in value by at least 25%.
That is a hard pill to swallow.
I suppose the Vintage crowd getting older and lack of interest from new younger buyers. Plus the covid shutting down all the vintage shoots.
I can only surmise my coffin will be very heavy


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Originally Posted By: PALUNC
If I am to believe what I am seeing with English Best gun prices the ones I own has decreased in value by at least 25%.
That is a hard pill to swallow.
I suppose the Vintage crowd getting older and lack of interest from new younger buyers. Plus the covid shutting down all the vintage shoots.
I can only surmise my coffin will be very heavy


I'm fortunate in that I sold most of my valuable English doubles a few years back. I have two left that I use from time to time and at some point I will send them off to auction with a tear in my eye and get whatever the market bears.

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Originally Posted By: PALUNC
If I am to believe what I am seeing with English Best gun prices the ones I own has decreased in value by at least 25%.
That is a hard pill to swallow.


It is hard to say this without coming across as callous, and I don't mean to Mike, but did you really expect otherwise, going in? If so, wasn't that expectation a bit unrealistic?

I have a rather large amalgamation of doubles. I never bought a one of them with any thought as to what they would be worth if, and when, I decide I don't want them anymore. I bought them to use, and enjoy.

This is not unlike watching interest rates. Those who have lots of cash invested bemoan low rates. Those who borrow to leverage those funds into other investments, like land, love low interest. In comparison some, who bought in with the "investment attitude", and who are reaching their "winter" in life, and own Bosses and Woodwards bemoan the doublegun market. Those who are hoping to buy their first one watch with eager anticipation. I'm pretty much nonchalant.

Best to you, SRH


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Originally Posted By: bushveld
Originally Posted By: Stan
I wonder just how big the market for matched pairs really is, and surmise that it's shrinking all the time, maybe at a faster rate than for single vintage doubles. If I'm right, lower prices for them are to be expected rather than be a surprise, Purdey's or not.

SRH


The discussion and its ultimate issue is the value that a shooter or two shooters could have had in buying the pair of Purdeys noted on the Morphy auction--not how big or small the market is for pairs of best quality English guns. These Purdeys apparently sold for $30,750.00 plus 20% fee for a total price of $36,900.00 or $18,450.00 each. At the same time Graham MacKinlay has a similar pair of Purdeys made one year later for sale at his shop in Scotland for $63,175,00 or $31,587.50 each.

It is not rocket science to see the value if a couple of "good ole boys" who wanted to own a good condition Purdey went in together and bought such a pair that sold for such a bargain at Morphy's.

Now these Purdey's at Morphy's need to be sent over to the UK and chambered and proofed for 2 3/4" and even when you do that and pay for it, the two "good ole boys" would have guns that were at least $10,000.00 of real value in their hands versus what they would have had to pay in the UK. It is interesting to note that the Graham MacKinlays Purdey's are 2 1/2 inch chambers as well and need rechambering and reproof to my mind.

This is where the REAL value of buying pairs are in the market just now, and it is not just now, now, as I remember sitting on the sofa at the late Cyril Adams home 15 years ago and talking about how the real value of English pairs in the USA was selling them individually then.


And just what percentage of the gun market bulls fit into that category, bushveld, of those who can find a friend who also wants a doublegun EXACTLY like the one they want, and are willing to part with that much cash to have it? I don't know, either, but can accurately estimate that it is minuscule. I stand by my original point that the market for matched pairs is dwindling ..........steadily.

SRH


May God bless America and those who defend her.
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