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Sidelock
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On Doublegunshop there is a listing of years of production by serial number for various manufacturers including A H Fox.

The Fox listing shows a single serial number per year (divided as Fox did by gauge and whether graded or SW). My question is is that single serial number thought to be the start of the year's production, the end of the year's production or some position during the year?


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Good ?...Geo

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I always consider the number to be the end of the year or highest number used. Do understand that some numbers were reserved in blocks or used but not shipped for up to a few years. So the numbers are just a rough guide. Many inventory cards do exist so in many cases a more certain date can be determined. I just wish we had the same information for LeFevers. There it is all just WAG.

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Jon, I know it's a rough guide. But determining whether it is a starting year number or end of year number makes it a lot better than a guess.

I suspect anyone who has lettered their Fox could look at their letter info, compare that to the guide on Double Gun and make an educated guess as to start or end of year.


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The number is the end of the year.

I have some real problems with the published Fox serial number chronology, which was originally put out in 1976 by Lightner Library.

For 16-gauge Fox-Sterlingworths they are showing production of 500 (1931), 600 (1932), 600 (1933), 700 (1934), 1100 (1935), 1500 (1936), 700 (1937) and then 1600 for 1938. Then the serial numbers from 374800 to 378481 are given for 1939 up to the last gun made 8/9/1939. I don't believe there is any way they all of a sudden pumped out 3681 16-gauge Fox-Sterlingworths in eight or nine months!!! From my 30 or so years of recording serial numbers of observed Sterlingworths, guns in the 375,xxx, 376,xxx, 377,xxx and 378,xxx range certainly exist.

On the 12-gauge Fox-Sterlingworths they estimate the highest serial number for 1937 as 145000, for 1938 as 150000 and for 1939 as 155000. Again from my years of observing and recording serial numbers, I haven't recorded a gun between 143815 and 160076, leading me to believe there were about 16000 serial numbers skipped. Perhaps the high 143xxx range was the end of regular production and the guns in the 160xxx and 161xxx range were cleanup of parts and barrels on hand?!? All of the guns I've recorded in that range are 26-inch barrels except one two-barrel set that also has a pair of 28-inch barrels.

Like the 12-gauges, there is a gap in the observed 20-gauge Sterlingworth serial numbers from guns in the mid-266xxx serial number range, observed specimens jump to the 270xxx range. A gap in serial numbers of about 3500 guns.

Pictures of the production card boxes on racks at Savage confirm these breaks in the serial number range for 12- and 20-gauge Sterlingworths.

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Thanks Researcher.

Interesting about the number gaps. You mention specifically your observations regarding SW guns. Have you seen similar or smaller discrepancies with the graded guns?


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I haven't seriously recorded graded guns like I have Sterlingworths. I do have photocopies of most of the tally sheets Roe Clark used to tabulate the graded 20-gauges for McIntosh's book, bottom of page 145.

From these pages, I see there are no cards for 203241 through 203500 and a smaller gap 203011 to 203099. There are two cards in this smaller gap, 203016 (XE) and 203017 (HE).

Continuing on with some 12-gauge Sterlingworth observations, it appears Savage made different guns in different serial number blocks. All the guns I've observed from 132649 to 132927 are SP-framed guns. All the guns I've recorded in the 133xxx range are drawbolt frame guns. The only guns observed in the 134xxx range are the Fox-Sterlingworth Wildfowls from 134102 to 134130. John Callahan's search of the records for Frank Srebro's The Double Gun Journal article on the Wildfowls, Volume Twenty-Six, Issue 4, shows surviving cards in this block up to 134142. I've recorded no other guns in the 134xxx range. In the 135xxx range the guns I've recorded are all in the 1356xx and 1357xx range and four of those five are 28-inch barrel Fox-Sterlingworth Skeet & Upland Game Guns. Again guns in the 1379xx and 1380xx range are SP-frame guns. All the guns I've recorded in the 143xxx range are drawbolt frame guns. Then we jump to the 160xxx range and the guns I've recorded up to 160434 are 26-inch barrel Fox-Sterlingworth Skeet & Upland Game Guns. Then another batch in the 1607xx and low 1608xx range. The 161xxx range is a mix of regular frames, then SP-frames and ends with drawbolt frames.

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Thanks for the follow up Researcher.


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like, so what?

mtdbn...

Last edited by ed good; 09/28/20 10:56 AM.

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