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old colonel #578676 08/25/20 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted By: old colonel


You believe I dont get it. I discern you do not see the implication of the safe space you believe you should be entitled to. Explicit in your post is that liberals should not post their ideas here. Your reasoning is classic cancel culture. You do not see it that way, but that is how I read it.


notwithstanding that old colonel has been very disappointed in my take on things as of late, you fellows that feel incensed by the likes of a liberal would do well to listen to listen to him.

old colonel is sharp as a tack and doesn't miss much.


Forum: a medium of discussion/expression of ideas. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/forum
old colonel #578677 08/25/20 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted By: old colonel
....While you seem to oppose Keiths methods, you seem to support his seeming end state.

OC, I think you do too? Regardless of feelings, this is an America of ends justifying the means. Clearly, an nca gladly approves, through his vote, of the many months of looting and rioting, and the politicians who enable it. What does that have to do with the forum, nothing, other than it is offensive to watch a law enforcement officer get bricked on TV and cheers follow. I can get silly and say keith bricked the forum, gently, or just keep knowing for myself that the times they are a changing.

old colonel #578678 08/25/20 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted By: old colonel
Originally Posted By: Tim in PA
Michael, what is so difficult about my last post that you mischaracterize what I said?

1) it's not free speech, it's speech allowed to whatever extent Dave allows

2) I am not afraid, nor am I threatened by left-wing BS

I will try to explain this as well as I can since you don't seem to get it. This is not a public forum, it's private, Dave can let in who he likes, and boot anyone he doesn't, you have no first amendment rights. You want a polite civil board, then people need to act politely and civilly, and that means no trolling.

If you were invited to the mixed-race wedding of a close relative, and one of the guests, a closet white supremacist, started running his mouth about how this whole marriage was wrong and an insult to humanity, would you find that very polite or civil? No, and neither would I. I would expect you would be helping that individual to the door. Or would you be defending his right to speak freely, and questioning why the wedding party is afraid of what he is saying?

So, here's the reality. That's no different than what is going on here. If some leftist wants to advance their political agenda (troll) on a gun board, someone is going to respond. Which will lead to a "discussion", someone is going to be in a bad mood, tensions will rise, and aggression will escalate, and here we are.

When the fight breaks out, insults are thrown and threats are being made, you can stand on a chair waving a handkerchief, and ask why we can't all be friends, but it's too late.

Politeness, courtesy and civility, yes, that means not insulting and threatening people. Treat someone you're arguing with like you would treat your grandmother. It's not hard to act civilized. But that also means, don't deliberately provoke people. Pushing anti-gun politics on a gun board is provoking people. If you don't want your arm broken, don't stick your finger in someone's eye.

I don't care if the fighting continues or ends, I can ignore what I don't like, but if you want to civility, the provocations that started this need to end. Courtesy. The folks on the left can show some courtesy by keeping their political opinions to themselves, and the folks on the right can extend that courtesy by disregarding their left wing political leanings and treat them like fellow Christians (if you're not Christian, no offense, sincerely, was intended). We need silence on both sides of this debate.

Tim



You believe I dont get it. I discern you do not see the implication of the safe space you believe you should be entitled to. Explicit in your post is that liberals should not post their ideas here. Your reasoning is classic cancel culture. You do not see it that way, but that is how I read it.

Unfortunately unlike you there are some who appear to be afraid of left-wing BS. That is shown by vitriol generated.

We appear to agree it is useless to argue politics here, however you seem to think speaking the liberal view is bad manners that should be self-censored, did I misunderstand that?

While I believe the possibility of conversion is zero, I believe differences can be politely discussed.

While we appear to agree that violation of the boards rules for postings is wrong, we do not seem agree on the nature of the site. I see it as allowing for more freedom than you. I am ok with that, the world would be dull if were zero differences. I can see why you think the way you do.

I doubt silence from both sides of the divide will occur under the current board rules. It would not kill me if Dave brought back misfires for the duration of the campaign season, or even requested we do as other boards avoid politics till After the election.

I believe it is possible for people on this board to get along if they choose to.



Sorry, but you're not reading what I posted. I neither need, nor want a safe space. There is nothing, anyone on this board can say, that will hurt my feelings. And if the trolling and fighting continue, I don't care, I can live with it. And no, this isn't classic cancel culture because this is not the proper forum for discussing political differences.

But you, you, want civility. And as long as people are allowed to provoke, (unintentionally, maliciously or otherwise) other members of this board, you, will be denied your civility.

And apparently, considering the constant requests for posting to stay on topic, people (other than me) are looking for a safe space. You want to give people the freedom to poke other people in the eye, but you don't want the grief that follows.

Tim

Dave Weber #578679 08/25/20 04:09 PM
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You are correct you did not say safe space, however your position that someone with Views you disagree with should have the good manners not to post them when those views are neither illegal nor immoral, but political difference amount to the exact thing. That is the very thing the cancel culture seeks to do, silence.

You may not see it that way, but I cannot see it any other way.

We just have remain in disagreement.

No I do not see asking for people to stay on topic as wrong.

I am not encouraging violent discussion, I am saying disagreement does not require disrespect. I can completely disagree with King Brown or others and not call him vulgar names etc.

Your solution that the minimal few on this board who believe differently than you on politics are the Problem and they should remain silent is wrong. I like you may believe their views are erroneous, but somehow I am able to avoid the lows some others, not you, take.

The problem is posters (more than just Keith) who do not obey the boards rules, which allow a fair amount of room to disagree without being disgusting.

I believe civility is possible, though unlikely without active webmaster support.

Last edited by old colonel; 08/25/20 04:11 PM.

Michael Dittamo
Topeka, KS
old colonel #578709 08/25/20 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted By: old colonel
You are correct you did not say safe space, however your position that someone with Views you disagree with should have the good manners not to post them when those views are neither illegal nor immoral, but political difference amount to the exact thing. That is the very thing the cancel culture seeks to do, silence.




This is my last post and I'm done with this. There's a difference between tossing an idea up for debate and provoking people. There are forums set up for discussion, and forums set up for debate.

I used to visit a religion forum. As a Christian, I went there expecting to encounter atheists, pagans, spiritualists, etc. It was a debate forum, people of different beliefs debating truth. Disagreement was expected, I didn't want people withholding opinions, I wanted to face the hard questions. I looked at my beliefs, answered the questions, and came away a stronger Christian for it.

This is a discussion forum, people come here because they have common interests, not to debate their differences. You yourself spoke of the "minimal few" with political differences from me. That would mean the vast majority of this board agrees with me politically, no?
That makes the "minimal few" the racist at the wedding. So, in the interest of civility, they should have the courtesy not to promote politics that are hostile to our 2nd amendment rights. Obama, Hillary, Beto and Kamala are fighting words to some people.

If you still don't get it, I would suggest you visit the Silent Doubles forum and reread the posts there. For someone who appreciates healthy political discourse, you seemed a bit ruffled. In fact, you were upset Dave didn't censor NCA over it. I thought the free exchange of opinions is a good thing. I guess not when it's your eye getting poked. And as far as that forum goes, I agree with you 100%, that was despicable, it was a poke in the eye of anyone with a shred of decency. But if you let malcontents run around breaking windows in this forum, they'll do it everywhere. You let left wing goblins run around unfettered on a right wing website and turmoil will follow.

You disagree with me, but then you say civility is only possible with webmaster support. Webmaster support is just another way to say censorship. I don't want a safe space, you do, you just want it to be safe to your sensibilities. When I say people need to filter their thoughts out of courtesy, it's for your benefit, not mine.

Tim

Dave Weber #578713 08/25/20 07:52 PM
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I believe we actually have more in common than in opposition. However we do have some fundamental differences.

In spite of that, I still respect your position and continue to wish you well and many more posts.


Michael Dittamo
Topeka, KS
Dave Weber #578723 08/25/20 09:03 PM
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https://youtu.be/mlVtuuh_dbY


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Im going to knock every one of you oot.

Dave Weber #578734 08/26/20 07:59 AM
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Damn a team from Florida beats the Bruins to canned cheers.The world is ending.

Dave Weber #578735 08/26/20 08:12 AM
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Late to the party, but I'll chime in as one more thanks to Dave for putting some force behind the rules. A few turds can certainly ruin a lot of good punch.

It seems that the responsibility of the members of the forum will be to help Dave monitor the offensive nonsense by reporting posts as they come up.

Hopefully, the option of suspending a member will mean fewer posts get locked in the midst of discussion. And also that fewer will be ruined by people who, as far as I can tell, have less interest in sharing information and experience than they do in entertaining themselves with insults and foolishness.


Jim
Dave Weber #578786 08/27/20 10:28 AM
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Things are looking up. Two months and both political and riot seasons will be over...Geo

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