doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com The Lead Ban. The European Experience.

Given that the EPA has been expressly denied the authority to regulate lead in ammunition, a nationwide lead shot ban in the US is unlikely. A new president, however, could change that . . . although my bet would be that even a Democrat in the WH would choose to focus on guns and not a particular type of ammunition.

Why limit themselves when they could have both, and more? Aren�t various states showing us what�s possible with a multi pronged approach?

Craig, are we seeing across the board lead shot/bullet bans anywhere in this country other than CA??? More states have Republican governors and/or legislatures than Dem, which is good news for what can happen at the state level. (Although not good news if you live in the wrong place.)

[quote=keith]
So how is this possible when we are told that steel kills just as good or better than lead?

I question the "science" relied on to support the no-lead movement, especially as it applies to upland game. Simply BS to think that the miniscule amount of lead shot dropping in upland fields and forests is statistically significant in terms of reduced bird populations or the public health. Heavy use waterfowl areas may be different--I don't know.

Regardless, when the steel shot waterfowl rule was mandated by the feds back in the early 90's, I quit hunting ducks altogether, and bought a 10 gauge 10 lb. Eibar double with 32 inch F/F barrels to hunt geese. I had the chokes reamed out a little bit at a time, many weeks back and forth to the pattern board and gunsmith, until finally the gun patterned 60% R and 70% L in perfectly round patterns with Federal 3 1/2 " 1 5/8 oz steel BB's. That gun was deadly on geese at up to 60 yards, and I was able to hit well at that distance because the barrels were so heavy I could not stop my swing. Patterns ran about 10% tighter with BBB's, but I never felt the need to use them. Still have 2 unopened boxes.

Point being, steel BB's had all the energy, penetration and killing power I needed to take 10 lb. Greater Canada's consistently. Prior to the rule, I used 1 7/8 oz of lead 2's in an early fixed choke 12 gauge 3" Win 23 with good result. I have no idea how the smaller steel shot works on ducks, and will probably never find out. FWIW.

Here in Norway we had the ban for some years. For hunting, it was reversed to the old rules after protest from both the hunters and the forest industry. Just one steel shot in the timber can make big problems for a saw mill. The price for any alternative to lead except from steel, did never fall. Today, it is not legal to shoot shotguns with lead on shooting ranges, or in wetlands. There's an exception for some black powder shooting on ranges, but I'm not entirely sure how that rule works. The ban was only for shot guns, rifles are not included in any ban. The Norwegian army changed from lead bullets to a lead free alternative. When this happend, many soldiers reported about not feeling well, getting head ache and similar symptoms after shooting. I belive they have altered the metal in the bullets, and that there has been an improvement for this.

Skrotnissen, nice to see some good Norwegian common sense. I was going to come up to Norway this June but have had to cancel. Beautiful country you have.

Currently the law bans lead shot in England and Wales for shooting ducks and geese. In Scotland it is slightly different in that it is banned for all species over wetlands. Some other minor rules but that is the basic situation. When the ban came in in England I bought some boxes of cartridges in Steel. Bismuth, Tungsten Matrix and Tin. Experience with steel is that it wounded more than it killed although I believe there have been great improvements since. Bismuth was o.k. provided the range was brought nearer. Tungsten worked fine but the price went up due to shortages in the Gulf War where it was needed for armour piercing tank shells. The Tin was not much use but as it was cheap it was handy to have a few rounds to finish off any ducks on the water not initially killed with the Bismuth. I don't really do much duck and goose shooting as a result and I think that seems to be similar among a lot of shooters. I recently; dare I say on this site, purchased a Winchester SX4 semi auto so as to be able to use 3 1/2" steel ammo and have another go at geese. I've not shot geese for many years except in Scotland where I could still use lead flighting over fields.

I was talking with a Farmer just yesterday who wanted geese shot on his land due to the amount of grass they eat and spoil. Sadly they are out of season although Canada geese can still be shot out of season if they are doing serious damage. Geese here have multiplied enormously. Next season I have some 3 1/2" BB shot cartridges and I'll give them a try. Heavy loads in Bismuth and Tungsten cost a fortune although I did manage to find some 3" BB Bismuth at a price worth trying.

The French in World War I used copper bullets in their 8mm. Lebel rifles. Lagopus�..