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Mar 29th, 2024
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Joined: Mar 2015
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Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 352 Likes: 33 |
All,
I have a "Darne" action shotgun that is likely either a "guild gun" or employee gun as it has no maker name anywhere on the gun.
I am trying to date the gun by the St Etienne proof marks, but cannot tell the difference between some of the 1901-1923 & 1923 to present proof marks. The proof marks are the PT with a crown over it and the 3 crown St Etienne proof mark which is double proof between 1901-1923 and a treble proof between 1923-1962.
Some of the other markings on the barrel are: canon de surete, canon JB and acier extra fine triple eprueve surrong the word Garanti
I've tried taking pictures but none come out usable.
Thanks for any information
I have become addicted to English hammered shotguns to the detriment of my wallet.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,749 Likes: 743
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,749 Likes: 743 |
It was built post 1900, as it was proofed with powder T.
It is tough to give you much more than that without a few pictures. It is more than likely an R model, but, there are two versions of that, with two patents.
Best,
Ted
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Joined: Feb 2016
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,157 Likes: 319 |
Chantry....what are the bores? 6.5 (in cm) would mean between 1900 and portions (undetermined) of 1912. 65 (in mm) would be 1912 and post 1912. The double and triple proofs are not necessarily indications of age. There were double proof guns well before 1923.
Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
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Joined: Jan 2002
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,377 Likes: 105 |
The St. Etienne triple proofmark first appeared in 1901 and is still in use, so that won't help you much.
Canon de surete doesn't help either. Not actually a proofmark and seen on a lot of French guns. Canon JB means that the barrels were made by Jean Breuil, a very well-known barrel maker. But that doesn't help much with a date either.
The French are pretty much unique among European gun making countries in not using a date code of some sort.
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Joined: Feb 2016
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,157 Likes: 319 |
Examples of Jean Brueil marks: Post 1900 (PT powder) but pre mid 1912 (Chamber length 7.5 marked in cm). Bore is 19.2 (10 gauge):  Post mid-1912. Bore is 18.4 (12 gauge); chamber length is 70mm. J.G. is the gun maker. J.B is the mark for Brueil post WWI.  This line "Dating Early 20th Century French Shotguns" might help. You'll note that Didier-Drevet was the only component maker (barrels) who dated his products in St. Etienne and he did so from 1854 to 1930s which enabled us to at least identify when St. Etienne changed from mm to cm (1889) and back to mm (1912) for chamber length: https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=484199As a consequence we were able to at least verify somewhat the Darnes SN date chart (that as Ted points out has a lot of exceptions in it):  Here is Ted's "Darne Patent Tree" 
Last edited by Argo44; 12/15/19 12:05 PM.
Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
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Joined: Jan 2006
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456 Likes: 86 |
Now you're a Darne X'spurt too...
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,749 Likes: 743
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,749 Likes: 743 |
Now you're a Darne X'spurt too... The more, the merrier. Besides, not everyone can be expert on breaking parrot vises and belly button lint. Best, Ted
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Joined: Feb 2016
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,157 Likes: 319 |
Morning j0e...don't know anything about Darnes - Ted does. But the barrels are Jean Breuil and the gun is French - Saint Etienne.
j0e, pride of Tennessee, was it booze or weed last night? Sometimes a spicy V-8 juice will help the eyes focus (and add a few vitamins after your usual fine cuisine supper - baked-beans and franks). Won't help reading comprehension though - nothing will but finally completing 6th grade. And guess you missed church...again. Oh well....the hereafter is a long way away.
Last edited by Argo44; 12/15/19 08:52 PM.
Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456 Likes: 86
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456 Likes: 86 |
Morning j0e...don't know anything about Darnes - Ted does. But the barrels are Jean Breuil and the gun is French - Saint Etienne.
j0e, pride of Tennessee, was it booze or weed last night? Sometimes a spicy V-8 juice will help the eyes focus (and add a few vitamins after your usual fine cuisine - baked-beans and hot dogs). Won't help reading compensation though - nothing will but finally completing 6th grade. And guess you missed church...again. Oh well....the hereafter is a long way away. Neither scum bag
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