S |
M |
T |
W |
T |
F |
S |
|
1
|
2
|
3
|
4
|
5
|
6
|
7
|
8
|
9
|
10
|
11
|
12
|
13
|
14
|
15
|
16
|
17
|
18
|
19
|
20
|
21
|
22
|
23
|
24
|
25
|
26
|
27
|
28
|
29
|
30
|
|
|
|
|
|
4 members (CJF, KDGJ, 2 invisible),
553
guests, and
5
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Forums10
Topics38,465
Posts545,074
Members14,409
|
Most Online1,258 Mar 29th, 2024
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 298 Likes: 43
Sidelock
|
OP
Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 298 Likes: 43 |
I suspect someone just got a bargain.
Today's Pook&Pook auction had a very nice Scottish boxlock by Mortimer. Damascus barrels. Interesting details filed around the top lever. Wonderful condition, in a leather case serial numbered to a different Mortimer gun a few hundred off. The lot sold for $1400 to an onsite bidder.
Beyond just being a very nice looking double, it turns out this same gun was sold by Bonhams in 2010 for 3,600.
Here's Bonham's description:
A 12-bore boxlock ejector gun by Mortimer & Sons, no. 7699 The treble-grip action-body with bouquet and foliate-scroll engraving, the top with carved scrolls, much hardening-colour, chequered triggers, well-figured stock with escutcheon, engraved TACM intertwined, and engraved heel-and-toe plates, the browned damascus barrels with game-rib engraved Mortimer & Son, 86 George St, Edinburgh Weight 6lb. 11oz., 14in. stock, 30in. barrels, approx. cyl. & choke, 2in. chambers, London nitro proof In a Mortimer & Son leather case for gun no. 7504 Footnotes Literature: H. Lee Munson, The Mortimer Gunmakers, 1753-1924, p. 136, pls. 210 and 211. The gun was completed in 1907 for Thomas Alfred Clark Mortimer (1840-1912) who had taken over the family business, aged 20, after the abrupt death of his father in 1860. Upon his retirement in 1907, shortly after this gun was completed, he sold the business to two former employees, and died five years later
Bonham's certainly provided more information than Pook&Pook, who had only this to say:
Mortimer & Son, Edinburgh double barrel side by side hammerless shotgun, 12 gauge, the nitro proof Damascus barrels inscribed Mortimer & Son, 86 George St. Edinburgh, the scroll engraved receiver inscribed Mortimer & Son, having a scroll engraved break lever, tang, trigger guard, and butt plate, 1" bronze monogram to lower side of butt stock, in a fitted Mortimer & Son labeled case, 30" barrels, 13 1/4" pull. SN #7699 | Estimate $800 - 1200 | Condition: Overall fine condition, mirror bores, strong case colors on receiver, tang and lever, case with mismatched serial number and shows wear.
You have to wonder about the decline in value from $4637 (including premium but excluding import costs from the UK to the USA) in 2010 to $1750 today (hammer+premium). Is this due to the size of the auction house? Whether provenance was provided? Or a decline in value?
I think it also should give us a reminder to leave good notes for our families for when they liquidate our collections. We may know the details, but I don't think we can count on anyone else close knowing them.
BTW, I did bid, but not as much as I would have had I not just added another Greener to my collection last week. I really like Greeners but this Mortimer would have been a nicer add to the collection!
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 920 Likes: 247
Sidelock
|
Sidelock
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 920 Likes: 247 |
It was adjustment in market value as a result of poor decision to ruin the buttstock, and the key word is "market"
Not many individuals (adults that is) find a LOP of 13 1/4" acceptable. (LOP formerly 14 1/2", now listed as 13 1/4")
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 298 Likes: 43
Sidelock
|
OP
Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 298 Likes: 43 |
From Pook and Pook auction 11-16-2019 From Bonhams auction 3-10-2010
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,831 Likes: 13
Sidelock
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,831 Likes: 13 |
Pook & Pook's LOP measurement was wrong. They measured from the back trigger.
Stock was untouched from the gun's time at Bonham's.
I think most of it is the market. Plenty of guys knew about that gun./
There are no secrets any more...
OWD
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,747 Likes: 743
Sidelock
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,747 Likes: 743 |
Id be willing to bet Bonhams measured from the front trigger, and the other guys measured from the rear.
The gun was worth more than it sold for. The guys who value good Damascus tubes were clearly not in attendance. That happens, sometimes.
But, make no mistake, there are fewer of those guys every year.
Best, Ted
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 298 Likes: 43
Sidelock
|
OP
Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 298 Likes: 43 |
It was adjustment in market value as a result of poor decision to ruin the buttstock, and the key word is "market"
Not many individuals (adults that is) find a LOP of 13 1/4" acceptable. (LOP formerly 14 1/2", now listed as 13 1/4") I agree the measurements are different, but I wonder if the stock was changed as it still has heel and toe plates surrounding a checkered section. Just a guess but I suspect it was measured incorrectly from the rear trigger. This picture is from today's auction.
Last edited by CJF; 11/17/19 11:35 AM.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 298 Likes: 43
Sidelock
|
OP
Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 298 Likes: 43 |
You all are fast...in the time it took to upload the pic, double check my opinion and post, this was already addressed.
Any opinions on the gun itself? I thought it was attractive.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,747 Likes: 743
Sidelock
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,747 Likes: 743 |
Stylish. Old. Finished to a high standard. Old. Neat history. Old. Cased. Old.
Did I miss anything? I missed the auction, too.
Best, Ted
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 11,343 Likes: 389
Sidelock
|
Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 11,343 Likes: 389 |
The gun sold for a price that exceeded the high estimate by more than 15%.
This should be a teachable moment. It matters who you employ as an Auctioneer when you sell your guns.
A true sign of mental illness is any gun owner who would vote for an Anti-Gunner like Joe Biden.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,747 Likes: 743
Sidelock
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,747 Likes: 743 |
I agree, Keith, but, would add that the times have changed a bit since Bonhams sold it. They wouldnt have duplicated the number of the first sale, unless two of Mortimers relatives, who both wanted the gun, were in attendance.
Best, Ted
|
|
|
|
|