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Joined: Dec 2001
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743 |
I am going to take a chance to renew this line of discussion. PLEASE, stick to the subject without letting personalities get involved. Data from the mid-1960s courtesy of Gun Digest. This was about the time I made the switch from using Hi-Speed LR to Std Vel LR for squirrels.
.22 Short Std Vel, 29-grain lead bullet @ 1045 fps, ME of 70 Ft Lbs. .22 short Hi-Speed, 29-grain copper clad @ 1125 fps, ME of 81 Ft Lbs. .22 LR Std Vel, 40-grain lead bullet @1145 fps, ME of 84 Ft Lbs .22 LR Hi-Speed, 40-grain copper clad & 1335 fps, ME of 97 Ft Lbs.
A box of much later CCI .22 Short CB caps shows a 29-grain lead bullet @ 710 fps. Energy is not listed & I did not bother to calculate it, though quite easily done. As I understand it these CB caps use only the priming charge as the propellant yet it still pushes the 29-grain bullet to 710 fps.
Note that the ME is proportional to the weight & the Square of the Velocity, while momentum is proportional to mass & velocity. The mass of the 40-grain bullet is 38% greater than the 29-grain one.
Both bullets have identical diameters & virtually the same shape. The extra mass here translates into a higher Sectional Density for the heavier LR which is why it penetrates deeper. The Ability to Move an object by the impact is based upon the amount of Momentum applied. In this case, if the short bullet stops without complete penetration & the LR passes completely through then the applied momentum will for the LR fall somewhere between the total for the Short & the potential of the long rifle. It will; not be less than that of the short for it has penetrated deeper.
In "Short", a .22 29-grain short will NOT move a squirrel farther than will a 40-grain LR.
Miller/TN I Didn't Say Everything I Said, Yogi Berra
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Joined: May 2011
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,198 Likes: 7 |
My dad used CB caps to whack dozens squirrels out of his backyard walnut tree. They were cutting into his crop. SSS
At 10-15 yards, they did the job. For his purposes, they were ideal because the low noise would not disturb the neighbors in the suburban development where he lived. About the time he ran out of squirrels to shoot I took the remaining caps b/c he was risking all kinds of arrests. Any survivors left the area.
If it was today instead of 30 yr ago, an air gun would be more appropriate. A decent air gun will have as much or more energy than the CB cap.
Last edited by Dave in Maine; 05/30/19 01:28 PM.
fiery, dependable, occasionally transcendent
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,075 Likes: 441 |
I knew a man who wreaked havoc on neighborhood squirrels with subsonic shorts shot from a bolt action with a baby bottle nipple taped to the muzzle. An "X" was cut at the tip. I never saw or heard him shooting so I guess it worked. Gil
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,698 Likes: 99 |
I was frog gigging on the river once and ran into a guy with a .22 single shot that had a yard long galvanized pipe welded on the end of the muzzle. He was slipping along the edge in his boat and shooting fish. I don't know how the pipe affected ballistics, but he had a cooler full of red horse suckers and catfish...Geo
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,081 Likes: 332 |
Last edited by John Roberts; 05/30/19 01:53 PM.
Be strong, be of good courage. God bless America, long live the Republic.
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
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They have the velocity to knock over 3" steel plates at 15 yards with absolutely no recoil allowing me for much faster follow up shots.
Dodging lions and wasting time.....
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,670 Likes: 372
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,670 Likes: 372 |
In "Short", a .22 29-grain short will NOT move a squirrel farther than will a 40-grain LR.
Don't argue with logic and data. It scares folks.
_________ BrentD, (Professor - just for Stan)
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Joined: Nov 2008
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 520 Likes: 20 |
A decent air gun will have as much or more energy than the CB cap.
I think my .22 air gun (nitro piston) only has about 25 ft-lbs of energy. Often the pellet passes through a squirrel or crow. Then again, this is at “garden” distance and I keep the penetrator pellets on hand for racoons. A .22 pellet gun is marginal for raccoons. A .380 ACP hollow point splatters racoon parts all over one’s living room…
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,711 Likes: 730 |
Miller, I have never recovered a LR solid from the body of a squirrel. That is because they always penetrate the squirrel, and expend whatever excess energy is required to do that task on the other side of the squirrel, in the atmosphere. If your .22 LR round produces 30ft pounds energy, but, it only takes 15ft pounds for the bullet to penetrate the squirrel, 30 ft pounds was not delivered to the squirrel. 15 ft pounds was.
The .22 short I almost always recovered from the carcass of the squirrel. It was moving slower to begin with, and because of that fact, and the fact the barrel rifling was cut to optimize the velocity of the higher velocity LR bullet, the .22 short was less stable in flight ( your experience has already alluded to this fact with your Mossberg rifle) than .22 LR, and, the bullet was far less stable in a squirrel, when it got there. It has a greater chance of delivering all the energy to the squirrel, and will do just that if it does not penetrate.
This is not carved in stone, and much will depend on the range of your shot. I never got shots much closer than 30 yards, and if all your shots were at 15 yards, I doubt you would see any difference at all. Somewhere in there is air temperature as well, I never hunted until well after the first frost, and preferred to have snow on the ground as it seemed to eliminate the sick animals, as well as reducing fleas, mites, ticks, and sundry other pests that make their living on the backs of warm blooded game animals.
Best, Ted
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Joined: Dec 2006
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,521 Likes: 20 |
A decent air gun will have as much or more energy than the CB cap.
I think my .22 air gun (nitro piston) only has about 25 ft-lbs of energy. Often the pellet passes through a squirrel or crow. Then again, this is at “garden” distance and I keep the penetrator pellets on hand for racoons. A .22 pellet gun is marginal for raccoons. A .380 ACP hollow point splatters racoon parts all over one’s living room… Ryan: I probably shouldn't ask, but how would you know the effects of the .380? Not from personal experience, I fervently hope. Rem
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