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#545524 05/08/19 07:24 PM
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bczrx Offline OP
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Hello,

I am trying to get a better handle on what shotgun is for which purpose.

I understand the purpose of the LC Smith Field 12 SxS- field hunting- probably upland?

However, I picked up a neat JP Sauer & Sohn Model 60 Deluxe, which puts it early-mid 1960s. Eeavertail, with ejectors.

Both are full and modified choked.

The Sauer is a bit heavier, so I am trying to figure if it is for more dove/stand shooting than upland hunting, or what its' purpose was.

Can anyone give me any insight into the comparison between these two?

The LC Smith Field 12 has the same barrel length as the JP Sauer, both have 2.75" chambers. The LC was a late 1940s production FW frame.

Again, any insight to help me understand the best purposes to use them for would be great.

Also, anyone know if Sauer [boxlock] can handle 'normal' 1oz and 1 1/8 oz loads, or is the 1960s era shotgun best with those low noise light load loads?

Thanks in advance for any tips


Classic 'field' SxS's are what draw me in- that way I can have more than one!
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FWIW- and I own and shoot L.C. Smiths-- barrel length, balance, over-all weight, stock dims and chokes all play a part in your equation. Back in that era, I daresay most hunters who bought a FW non-ejector double trigger Field grade Smith planned to use it for all sorts of game- whether waiting in a blind for ducks or doves, or walking in behind a dog and flushing a pheasant.

Your Sauer is a tad heavier, the beavertail forearm and Germanic style buttstock might account for that--

If I were walking all day after flushing dogs for pheasant in Nov. in SD-- I'd go for the slightly lighter carrying gun== If I were shooting dove in Deep Dixie from a stand, weight would not be a factor- assuming good balance of the gun in hand.

What type of loads will you use. All 12 gauge Smiths from the "get-go" (with the exception of the 3" Chambered LONGRANGE series, whic came out aprox. 1926 have 2&3/4" long chambers. Just curious, how did you determine the chokes and chamber lengths on your German made Sauer?

Good questions you have raised-- let's see what the other folks who cruise this website have to say-- RWTF


"The field is the touchstone of the man"..
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Whats the condition of the wood behind the locks on the Elsie?


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Of all the American classics, I shoot LC Smith the best. By far. So Smith gets my vote.

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bczrx Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Run With The Fox

What type of loads will you use. All 12 gauge Smiths from the "get-go" (with the exception of the 3" Chambered LONGRANGE series, whic came out aprox. 1926 have 2&3/4" long chambers. Just curious, how did you determine the chokes and chamber lengths on your German made Sauer?


Thank you for your insights!

Loads- I have purchased some Winchester AA Low Noise, Low Recoil ammo to use for a 1970s Spanish SxS, as it was proofed for lower pressures than our SAAMI specs.

I might eventually standardize on that for SxS shotguns, just for simplicity. Most of my shooting is recreational- not hunting. But, I would like to know the best role for everything.

Currently, I planned to stick to loads of 7/8-1 1/8, and speeds under 1200 fps for the LS Smith, until I make up my mind. The cost at WalMart makes this attractive for me, as all I am doing is trying to bust clays about 2 times a year, or hitting the barrel at 30 yards.



As to chamber/bore on the Sauer, I read the markings on it. I don't think it has been used much, and the metal in the choke area seemed to match [using LGS's drop-in choke gauge] the bore markings. As for chamber length, I did a lot of research and my recollection was that all of the 1960s Sauers were 2 3/4".

I can't recall if I read 2.75" on it, or read 12/70 on the flats of the barrel, but I am pretty confident it was a 2.75" chamber- and not 2 9/16 or shorter.

I have no intention of putting 3" through it.


Last edited by bczrx; 05/08/19 09:06 PM.

Classic 'field' SxS's are what draw me in- that way I can have more than one!
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bczrx Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: nca225
Whats the condition of the wood behind the locks on the Elsie?


This is a 1948 LC Smith Field, which the sales lit says had a new improved quality stock.

Ive taken it off and there are no visible cracks anywhere, as far as I could tell.

Following advice in many quarters, I used CA/Super Glue to seal the wood inside the head behind the action and locks. Hopefully it permeated a bit into the wood also.

Down the road, if it cracks, I can do glass-bed it. I just simply didn't want to order the material and figure it all out over the next few months.

After reinstalling the wood to the receiver, I want to clean up the hammer/bridle/spring, as there is a bit of rust on the sides. Nothing major, but I want to remove it before re-installing- to allow it to go another 70 years before the metal is of concern.


Classic 'field' SxS's are what draw me in- that way I can have more than one!
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bczrx Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: JHJ
Of all the American classics, I shoot LC Smith the best. By far. So Smith gets my vote.


Thank you!


Classic 'field' SxS's are what draw me in- that way I can have more than one!
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Another vote for the Elsie.


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The Sauer you have is one of the so-called "West German Sauers"--made on the democratic (vs Communist) side of the Iron Curtain-- back when there was also an East Germany. Those guns were imported and sold by Stoeger, and were specifically made for the American market. The gun should be marked 2 3/4" somewhere. Or possibly a 70, indicating the metric equivalent of 2 3/4". And you should also be able to find a date code--a 3 or 4 digit number indicating month and year of production.

According to my Stoeger catalog, your 12ga Deluxe with 28" barrels should weigh about 6 1/2 pounds--which I would guess would make it lighter than a post-WWII Elsie 12ga with 28" barrels. Either gun can certainly handle factory 1 oz or 1 1/8 oz loads . . . although if the Sauer is actually that light, I'd stick with moderate velocity 1 1/8 oz loads (1145 fps) if I were shooting a lot of them, as in a round of trap.

I've owned a few of the Model 60's, and while they all functioned fine, the problem I had was with the stock dimensions. Listed as 1 3/4" drop at comb and 2 3/4" at heel, I found them too low for me.

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The most important thing is how well they fit YOU! Both are fine guns and will digest any ammo you put in them. I generally prefer the LC, but my light gun is a Lindner which fits me perfectly and as it is too early for Super X type loads (and is 5 1/2#) I use lighter loads. Both your guns are past the 2 9/16" era, so no problem there.
So bottom line remains...How do they fit YOU?!


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