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Joined: Oct 2014
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I don't shoot 16 gauge. Academy's best price on 16's is $8/box, with free shipping on orders over $100.

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Originally Posted By: gold40

Currently, the "best buy" in 12 gauge shot shells is Academy Sports. Either $50 or $55 per case; and they pay shipping on orders over $100. No FFL needed. If anyone is aware of a less expensive source, please post.


Gander Outdoors has Remington Gun Clubs, both 12 and 20, $50/flat. The 12's I saw were 1 1/8 oz @ 1145 fps. 20's: 7/8oz @ 1200fps.

Really a shame they don't produce 16ga Gun Clubs.

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Originally Posted By: topgun
I've never used Herter's shells, and would be very reluctant to do so after reviewing an incident that occurred this past weekend at the Southern Side x Side. A shooter was using Herter's shells in his 16-bore Field Grade Smith when his right chamber exploded. The explosion burst the top of the chamber in this original and high condition gun. There was no evidence of an obstruction or any existing damage to the gun that would have caused this rupture. The recovered shell showed a 3/8" wide missing section or gap along the top of the hull from the base of the shell head to the end of the plastic case. From the visual examination it appeared this shell was simply overloaded and exploded inside the chamber. The chamber was ripped open and showed a void at least 1 1/2" wide along the top of the chamber wall with the tear stopping at the forcing cone. With the exception of the barrels the gun was not damaged and still opened and closed smoothly, locking shut like a bank vault. Metal shards from the explosion were ejected upwards away from the shooter and all bystanders, so fortunately no one was injured; but a really good gun was ruined by what, in my opinion, was a heavily overloaded shell.


I defer to others who've had experience with "catastrophic failures". That being said, a gap along the entire length of the hull sounds like it may have been an obstruction. It seems to me that an overloaded shell would show most damage to the hull at the case mouth. Likewise the damage to the barrel most evident where the case mouth opened and exerted significant overpressure. The gap or rip sounds like something kept the case mouth from opening properly, the result being that it blew through the wall of the hull. But that's only theory on my part.

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There is a Remington Gun Club 16. loaded with an oz. of 7 1/2 and $8 a box. Not a wide selection and a bit pricey for large volume shooting. Those Herter's shells were the thing I bought from Cabela's after the take over. No reason to go there ever again.

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Was that vintage Elsie built for modern ammo? The Herters shells are up to SAAMI pressure limits if I recall correctly.

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Hot on the trail gentlemen, with a likely diagnosis.
The gun was a very high condition regular frame 16g with fluid steel barrels.
With the permission of the owner and the picture taker, I'll start another thread after a bit.

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Originally Posted By: Shotgunjones
My experience is that difficult extraction with steel headed shells is more often encountered with generous chambers than tight ones.

Expansion into extractor grooves is common.

Sharp and narrow extractors as found on many older repeaters does not help either. Nor does a rough chamber.

This is not a problem exclusive to older guns either. Mossberg guns of current manufacture sometimes have problems with steel headed shells right out of the box. I was trapped in a duck blind for a weekend with a friend shooting a brand new 3 1/2" Mossberg and we drove each fired shell out with a stick.

That said, the Herters and other euro brands loaded in Cheddite and Fiocchi hulls run fine in 'most' guns.

My Italian made automatics love the stuff.



The bolded part is pretty much what Ithaca Gun in Ohio says also, for $150 they will convert an older finicky 37 to eat those thin base hulls:

"The problem you are experiencing is something we have developed a fix for by welding the extractor notches shut and re-cutting the notches to establish a better seal of the chamber wall on the entire brass side wall. The problem only seems to have presented itself in the last 10-15 years with the use of cheaper and at times thinner materials being used for the shell brass."

Of course as you also mentioned a clean and polished chamber helps and is the first place to start, and is a lot cheaper.

I reload the 16 in 7/8 oz. for my fixed breech guns with Cheddite hulls which are different hulls than the Herter's which are also Cheddite. The Herter's are a thinner hull all the way around. Never had a problem in any of my 37's with the bulk Cheddite skived hulls I reload, even in my prewar guns.

I picked up a dozen flats of the Herter's in 16 ga. when it looked like they were going to be hard to get and they started selling them by the box instead of the flat. I use them in my new style A5 Sweet 16 as it takes a full 1 oz. load to eject consistently. But some of the shells from the last batch of Herter's fail to eject consistently, which never happened before. So I have taken to loading a Federal first, which always ejects, and Herter's for the second shell on doubles so if it hangs it doesn't matter. I have read of a few others also having issues with some of the last batch of Herter's before Cabela's discontinued them. For $5 a box I would still pick up all I could get my hands on though.

Just got a text from a friend that Fleet Farm has Gun Clubs on sale for $5 a box right now in 20 & 12.

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The Herter's 16g gauge shells wear the CIP license/logo/label whatever it is.

16 is the only gauge I have left, but I seem to remember that the 12 gauge Herter's were also Loaded to CIP standards.

Viewing the initial pictures of the failed LC Smith, my confidence in the Herter's shells is unshaken.

There is a lot of variation in the steel head shells.

The heads will all fall within the dimensions published by SAAMI or CIP as the case may be, but if you put a micrometer to them you will note that the euro made shells have on average a smaller diameter head and thinner rim than US made shells.

Remington Gun Club in 12 gauge is right at SAAMI maximum diameter, at least the last ones I measured were.


"The price of good shotgunnery is constant practice" - Fred Kimble
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I bought several flats of the Herter's 16 gauge laods. The metal heads on about half of them were corroded and would not eject from my graded Fox 16g. The chambers are pristine and the ejectors are crisp and fully functional.

I do not like standing in a dove field and trying to pry hulls out of my gun with a pocketknife while birds are flying by.

I would NOT buy them again if they were $20 a flat.


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Originally Posted By: Chukarman
I do not like standing in a dove field and trying to pry hulls out of my gun with a pocketknife while birds are flying by.


You and me both, brother. I don't even like pulling them out of an extractor gun at those times.

SRH


May God bless America and those who defend her.
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