April
S M T W T F S
1 2 3 4 5 6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13
14 15 16 17 18 19 20
21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28 29 30
Who's Online Now
7 members (rtw, earlyriser, Ian Forrester, coosa, Lloyd3, 1 invisible), 876 guests, and 4 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums10
Topics38,445
Posts544,819
Members14,406
Most Online1,258
Mar 29th, 2024
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,573
Likes: 80
Sidelock
***
OP Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,573
Likes: 80
https://ibb.co/Syccvb7

Looked at this double online today. I've never seen twist like this before.

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158
Likes: 114
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158
Likes: 114
Looks like a lot of "gap" between the barrels and the standing breech--RWTF


"The field is the touchstone of the man"..
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 666
Likes: 45
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 666
Likes: 45
The part on the far left looks like a "laminated" pattern.

Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 666
Likes: 45
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 666
Likes: 45

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743
That W&C Scott & Sons c 1860 laminated steel barrel look very much like the barrels on my Ca 1863-65 W&C Scott & Sons pinfire.

Run; I'm not certain that's a gap but may be an optical illusion because the standing breech is larger than the barrel breech. That may just be a shadow line we're seeing.


Miller/TN
I Didn't Say Everything I Said, Yogi Berra
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,411
Likes: 313
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,411
Likes: 313
Interesting and thank you for posting that Mike.



The (thicker) breech section W. Greener called "Mr Wiswould's Iron" and W.W. "herring-bone". John Henry Walsh called it "Angularly Laminated", although this is the least "angular" that I've seen. It would appear that after "puddling" the iron and steel, that the rods had very little twisting before forming the ribband. I can't tell if it is 2- or 3- Iron; most Laminated Steel was 3.

Dan (thanks) posted the link with lots more information, and this illustration from "The Gun"



This is more typical; a Westley Richards



As Dan observed, the mid-barrel section is the usual (mosaic) laminated steel; P. Webley & Sons



More examples here
http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/18063717

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,463
Likes: 212
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,463
Likes: 212
Originally Posted By: Drew Hause
Interesting and thank you for posting that Mike....

....called it "Angularly Laminated", although this is the least "angular" that I've seen. It would appear that after "puddling" the iron and steel, that the rods had very little twisting before forming the ribband. I can't tell if it is 2- or 3- Iron; most Laminated Steel was 3....

Only guessing here Doc Drew. These may be typical rods that appear courser and less angular because they were forged out wider. Purely by observing the picture, it appears as if each rod were considered wide enough by the barrel maker to be used as ribbands. I would suspect that if a ribband (2 or 3) of that rod pattern were wrapped on a mandrel, it would require a significantly angular appearing weld line. Again, only guessing, possibly Steve C. would take a look at it.

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,411
Likes: 313
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,411
Likes: 313
Good observation Craig, and yes, Steve would likely know

Henry Wilkinson, 1841
p. 70 Part III “On The Manufacture of Fire-Arms, And Modern Improvements”
http://books.google.com/books?id=0XJeF_oa3SMC
For the finest...barrels, a certain proportion of scrap steel, such as broken coach-springs, is cut into pieces and mixed with the iron by the operation called puddling, by which the steel loses a considerable portion of its carbon, and becomes converted to mild steel, uniting readily with the iron, and greatly increasing the variegation and beauty of the twist. In whatever manner the iron may be prepared, the operation of drawing it out into ribands (rods) for twisting is the same. This is effected by passing the bars, while red hot, between rollers until extended several yards in length, about half an inch wide, and varying in thickness according to whichever part of the barrel it may be intended to form...

The New American Cyclopaedia: A Popular Dictionary of General Knowledge, 1859
http://books.google.com/books?id=kL9PAAAAMAAJ
...6 bars alternately with as many of steel, and the whole be then forged into one, and rolled into rods 3/8 of an inch wide, which coiled in a spiral produce the Wire Twist barrel; or into rods 3/8 of an inch square for being converted into Damascus iron. For this purpose each rod is twisted to the number of 14 turns to the inch, by which its thickness is doubled and its length reduced from 6 to 3 feet; three of these rods are then so laid together that the twists of the middle one run the contrary direction from those of the others, and the whole being heated are welded together and then rolled into a rod 11/16 of an inch wide for coiling in a spiral.

John Bumstead, On the Wing: A Book for Sportsmen, 1869
http://books.google.com/books?id=Um8CAAAAYAAJ
Notice whether the barrels are made of laminated steel or stub-twist; the difference is discoverable in the figure. The former is variegated and beautifully blended, while the latter runs around the barrel in a simple plain spiral. One mark of a good gun, to be noticed in the selection, is that the riband of iron forming the barrel in a spiral form, and welded, can be seen where the welding-line meets. In good and high-priced guns they are 6/16, and in the low-priced guns they are 5/8 of an inch in width.

Appleton's Dictionary of Machines, Mechanics, Engine-work, and Engineering, 1873
http://books.google.com/books?id=zi5VAAAAMAAJ
“Gun Barrels”
http://books.google.com/books?id=zi5VAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA936&dq
This is effected by passing the bars, while red-hot, between rollers until extended several yards in length, about half an inch wide, and varying in thickness according to whichever part of the barrel it may be intended to form...

Scientific American Supplement, Dec. 1, 1888
“Manufacture of Damascene Gun Barrels in Belgium”
https://books.google.com/books?id=1vI8AQAAIAAJ&pg=PA10762&lpg
Among the Liege makers five patterns are said to be in especial request, namely the “Bernard,” “Clou,” “Turc,” “Boston,” and “Crolle.”
For the “Damas Bernard it is necessary to have 81 rods (really wires) of iron and steel superposed one above another in 9 different lines. The iron wire is 14 mm square, the steel 12 mm, but when welded and drawn out, the rod thus formed is only 8 1/4 mm square, and is cut into lengths of 50 cm.
The “Damas Clou” is made in a somewhat similar manner, except that the number of iron and steel wires entering into the mass is only 26 instead of 81. In this case the iron wire is 12 mm wide by 6 mm thick, and the steel 12 by 4 mm. The mass is also cut in lengths of 50 cm, and drawn out to a thickness of 7 1/2 mm.
The “Damas Turc” is nearly similar in character to the “Clou”, with the exception that a finer quality both of iron and steel is used, and that the steel wire or thread is 4 1/2 mm thick instead of 4.
The “Damas Boston” is very similar to the “Damas Clou,” but is inferior to the latter.
In the “Damas Crolle” 16 iron and steel wires are employed, the iron being 12 mm wide and 10 mm thick, and the steel 12 by 7 mm.
12mm = about 1/2"
(No mention of Laminated Steel)


Link Copied to Clipboard

doublegunshop.com home | Welcome | Sponsors & Advertisers | DoubleGun Rack | Doublegun Book Rack

Order or request info | Other Useful Information

Updated every minute of everyday!


Copyright (c) 1993 - 2024 doublegunshop.com. All rights reserved. doublegunshop.com - Bloomfield, NY 14469. USA These materials are provided by doublegunshop.com as a service to its customers and may be used for informational purposes only. doublegunshop.com assumes no responsibility for errors or omissions in these materials. THESE MATERIALS ARE PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANT-ABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR NON-INFRINGEMENT. doublegunshop.com further does not warrant the accuracy or completeness of the information, text, graphics, links or other items contained within these materials. doublegunshop.com shall not be liable for any special, indirect, incidental, or consequential damages, including without limitation, lost revenues or lost profits, which may result from the use of these materials. doublegunshop.com may make changes to these materials, or to the products described therein, at any time without notice. doublegunshop.com makes no commitment to update the information contained herein. This is a public un-moderated forum participate at your own risk.

Note: The posting of Copyrighted material on this forum is prohibited without prior written consent of the Copyright holder. For specifics on Copyright Law and restrictions refer to: http://www.copyright.gov/laws/ - doublegunshop.com will not monitor nor will they be held liable for copyright violations presented on the BBS which is an open and un-moderated public forum.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.0.33-0+deb9u11+hw1 Page Time: 0.054s Queries: 30 (0.034s) Memory: 0.8439 MB (Peak: 1.8989 MB) Data Comp: Off Server Time: 2024-04-19 18:43:13 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS