doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Interesting Double

Last week I had a chance to examine an interesting old double. Nicely made Jones underlever, hammers, London proofs including "Not For Ball", numbered 146xx, but no indication of a maker on the rib, locks, water table, or barrels. Nothing that could be a maker's mark. Probably "Very Good" to "Good" antique condition. The kicker? It was an 8 Gauge, weighing in a 12+ pounds, with 36 inch barrels. It was choked down to .79x. Nominal 8 Ga. is .835. The proof marks included a "9" on each barrel, but the chambers ere clearly 8 Gauge. So almost certainly a waterfowl getter. Just a really nice piece of history, but the no name thing bothers me. Anyone have any ideas how the maker might be identified?

It's not at all unusual for a gun's bores to be proofed tighter than its nominated cartridge. If it was proofed at 9 then .79ish isn't such a lot of choke. Sounds pretty normal to me.
As to maker: there may well be some initials discreetly stamped on barrels, locks etc in hidden places that require disassembly to get a look at that offer some clues; there may also be some stylistic clues common to other makers. But then, if it had a name on it, any price tag would probably reflect that with a premium

9 gauge = .803" bores. Of course this mark simply meant it would accept an .803" diameter plug gage, but not an .835" one, so could be anywhere between.
Normal full choke of a 12 gauge (.729") of this era was about .040" constriction, or 11% reduction of bore area. This same 11% reduction in an 8 gauge @ .835" would equal to .788 so the .79ish would not be at all excessive for the 8 gauge.

The "Not for Ball" marking confused a lot of people. These guns could be fired with ball as long as the ball was small enough to pass through the choke. Prior to choke boring most round balls used were close to bore diameter. If one fired a .010" under bore size ball through a barrel having some .030"-.040" choke a bulged or split muzzle was apt to occur. If on the other hand the ball was .010" under choke diameter then there was no problem.

No name, the best kind of gun for me!

Having handled it, is it a good gun? If you can answer that the name is superfluous.

I think it was smallbore who said....
"Buy the gun, not the name"

It's still good fun trying to identify a maker or makers though.

The 'Not For Ball' mark was used only for short period and merely denotes that there is some degree of choke. It came into use shortly after the use of choke became more commonly used. A lot of these big doubles were not built by the person whose name appears on the rib. They would be made by a few Trade specialists and 'named' as required. Strong possibility with yours is that it was made in the trade but never got ordered so just went out for general sale. Not all that unusual to come across here. There may be a couple of small initials on the barrels that could give a clue as to worked on it giving a possible answer to its origins. Quite a following for these big bore guns over in the U.K. where they can still be used. Hellishly expensive loading Bismuth ammo for them though. Lagopus.....

Is the gun for sale? If you don't buy it, please let me know. I would be interested if the gun is in good working order.

thanks!

Pictures may result in someone identifying it.

I'll ask if he is looking to sell it. It looked to me to be in excellent operating order, tight lockup and crisp locks. Even the checkering was not worn down, although it is flat top checkering, as used on some guns of that period (the "not for ball" proof marking was only used by the London Proof House between 1875 and 1887).