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#510327 04/02/18 01:38 PM
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topgun Offline OP
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A gentleman from Syracuse, NY called recently to tell me hed just taken in a Syracuse Arms 12-bore gun described as a Grade "D3" Live Bird gun; made an offer I thought fair, and here it is. Im not sure that any of us have actually seen a SAC live bird gun other than the pics of the early Grade BE example at the NRA museum; thus I suppose we can assume examples are certainly uncommon, and certainly this is the only example Ive ever handled. Although the story cant be authenticated, the seller said the gun came into his shop from an individual who had purchased the gun from an old estate there in Syracuse, NY; whether that meant this gun had remained within the family of the original owner or not since it was new he couldnt say, but the gun was never abused and remains in very nice condition. This gun was obviously built for trap or pigeon shooting, as it is noticeably heavier than normal; and was made with the following stock dimensions: 14 3/4 LOP x 2 drop at comb x 2 drop at heel. It also features a differently shaped comb than the typical SAC gun from this period, and the comb on this example closely resembles the combs featured on post-1900 Smith guns. But straight stocked SAC guns of any style seem to be very uncommon (Ive recorded 5 examples). This SAC gun is an early example and probably made around 1895 or 1896, as it features the early V spring forend fastener. When the seller initially gave me the grade as D3, I was super excited as the only other Grade D3 Ive recorded was the presentation grade 10-bore featured in a DGJ article 4-5 years ago. And although this gun has nice wood and an unusual feature or two, its otherwise about as plain as an old shoe; and for whatever its worth Ive not a clue as to the meanings of the Syracuse Arms Co "D3" Grade stamp, nor any of the other early Hollenbeck and Syracuse Grade "D" stamps for that matter. Thus far Ive seen two SAC guns stamped D3, two stamped D2, and several stamped D; no two have been alike and all have varied in decoration from very little (such as this example) to presentation quality. That changed after 1900, as from about 25XXX and up there is much more consistency within the features of the "D" Grade SAC gun examples Ive seen).

This "D3" gun features virtually the same engraving coverage and style seen on the early Grade 1 Twist barreled SAC guns (Ive actually seen Grade 1s with more engraving), the wood quality would be equivalent to what Ive observed on early Grade A and Grade B guns; and so is the quality of the Damascus barrels. The double line border around the checkered panels is a nice touch, as is the manner in which both grip panels meet at the top of the wrist behind the top strap. One nice touch was the way in which the tip of the lower tang is finished off; as opposed to being finished with a sharp point, it has been rounded and reshaped a bit. The only thing I could determine as to after-market modification/repair is that the original opening lever was replaced at some point, as the replacement lever and screw are not presently engraved; but would have been originally. The gun still retains a high percentage of its original Damascus barrel pattern/finish, traces of case color, bores are in great condition, screw slots still remain sharp; and the original early style dog's head butt plate has survived in superb condition. Dr. Drew will lend a hand by posting pix soon; but for now, and since my cell phone efforts were pathetic, he's suggested I come up with pix that will actually be legible. Although certainly not the prettiest SAC gun Ive ever owned, this example is still a very, very nice piece; and a seldom seen and extremely unusual SAC gun. Perhaps this unique piece will make for an interesting discussion; and I'll get those photos as soon as possible.

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certainly a nice tease.................

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I would love to see it! Great find! Since we have so many members from GA we need to get together and come up with an event

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Sporting Life began reporting the gun, powder and shell used by competitors at major shoots starting in 1895.
The first listing of a Syracuse Arms was at the 1899 GAH, used by the well known shooter George S. Mosher, of Syracuse, N.Y. and manager of SAC
http://library.la84.org/SportsLibrary/SportingLife/1899/VOL_33_NO_05/SL3305013.pdf
He had the only Syracuse at the 1900 GAH
None listed at the 1901 GAH

Made manager of SAC
http://library.la84.org/SportsLibrary/SportingLife/1895/VOL_25_NO_05/SL2505015.pdf

1895 Sportmen's Show
http://library.la84.org/SportsLibrary/SportingLife/1895/VOL_25_NO_09/SL2509025.pdf

http://library.la84.org/SportsLibrary/SportingLife/1895/VOL_26_NO_04/SL2604011.pdf

He competed at the 1895 N.Y. State Ass. Championship but the report doesn't list his gun
http://library.la84.org/SportsLibrary/SportingLife/1895/VOL_25_NO_15/SL2515025.pdf

1895 "shooting a 10 1/2 # Hollenbeck gun"
http://library.la84.org/SportsLibrary/SportingLife/1895/VOL_26_NO_02/SL2602013.pdf

1896 Sportsmen's Show
http://library.la84.org/SportsLibrary/SportingLife/1896/VOL_26_NO_26/SL2626012.pdf

1897
http://library.la84.org/SportsLibrary/SportingLife/1897/VOL_30_NO_14/SL3014024.pdf

1898
http://library.la84.org/SportsLibrary/SportingLife/1898/VOL_30_NO_26/SL3026021.pdf

He ended his association in 1901
http://library.la84.org/SportsLibrary/SportingLife/1901/VOL_37_NO_12/SL3712030.pdf

1905 he was a Lefever rep
http://library.la84.org/SportsLibrary/SportingLife/1905/VOL_45_NO_08/SL4508022.pdf
http://library.la84.org/SportsLibrary/SportingLife/1905/VOL_45_NO_10/SL4510023.pdf

1907 A.H. Fox
http://library.la84.org/SportsLibrary/SportingLife/1907/VOL_48_NO_18/SL4818013.pdf

COULD IT BE GEORGE'S?

When other than "through a glass darkly" images appear, they'll be posted wink

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topgun Offline OP
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That is an interesting question Drew, for while inspecting the gun last evening; I removed the butt plate and found what appears to be a name lightly written in pencil on the butt. Unfortunately, my eye balls, as is the case with the rest of my bod, are old and I simply couldn't make out the inscription well enough to read what had been written. The primary reason, besides my eyes, was that the name/inscription was written over a very rough surface; seems a router bit had be used on the end of the butt for some unknown purpose, and that factor combined with the lightest of the pencil mark made reading a challenge. At any rate I'll keep trying; but it sure would be nice if the name did indeed turn out to be an individual we know from history.

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Tom,

Certainly a very nice and rare example of a Hollenbeck gun. Photograghy in varied lighting might lift that name. Anxiously awaiting more pictures and history.

John

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Tom is working on images that would do the gun justice, but in the interim


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That forend loop looks interesting...


B.Dudley
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Bro. Tom is trying. I had to get a neighborhood 10 year old to help me when I first started at this wink


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topgun Offline OP
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Thanks Drew, and for the curious, the above SAC gun is grade stamped "O1"; the "O" designation indicating the gun shipped with Twist Steel barrels ("New Twist"). As to the "1" stamp, best I can theorize is that the "1" stamp denotes engraving coverage equivalent the early and discontinued Grade 1 Twist barrel model (this gun is numbered in the 18XXX range). I'm assuming this grade moniker was used because 1) the Grade 1 had been dropped by this time frame; and 2) the frames on the Grade O Twist barreled guns (Grade O in production since company inception,)never featured engraving. At one time I speculated that this gun represented a special ordered given it's engraving and outstanding English walnut stock, but I've recently seen two other examples for sale on GB with the same "O1" Grade stamp. Both were ragged-out relics in the same serial number range, both had very plain wood; and one was not engraved at all? So now I'm inclined to think these guns were custom built to fill a order for one of their dealers; or perhaps part of a sales company promotion? Who can say; but one will see a large number of high grade guns of all makes that won't have figured stocks equal to the color and figure found in this piece of English (photo doesn't do this wood justice). And for whatever it's worth, this is one of my favorite SAC guns; and is memorable to me in that I used this piece to bag the only collared doves I've had a chance to shoot.

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