doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Turkey season is almost upon us.

Well I do say it, and I'll repeat it. But you have pointed out that was incorrect when I said all wildlife. What I meant to imply was game animals within a normally occurring quail zone. I'm not talking about varmints or introduced species. What I meant to say was providing food, nesting habitat, and escape cover for quail provide the optimum benefits for all the game species within that region. Even grouse will coexist with quail as long as new cut over timber is provided.
But when you voluntarily manage for other species quail are shutout.

volleyfire,
There are SO many ways to take this, I can't count them all, but you are quite simply wrong and illogical, even if you consider ONLY game species. But in short, wildlife management is not the farming of targets for hunters.

Wrong on both counts. Tungsten is 50%heavier than lead, and most turkey hunters are using it for the denser shot swarm small shot provides, allowing one to use a smaller gauge, lighter weight gun. Lots of walking involved.
JR

We all have our prejudices. I will admit to mine.

I always start out by counting the many ways from square one, "who pays the bills?" Hunters and fishermen pay the wildlife tab and built the organization. So far as I can see they are the only group in the United States paying their own way. Lots of little guys "looking for targets," wondering why so many decisions are made that are detrimental to hunters.

When one wants to truly understand the needs of quail, they need to go no further than the very well-documented estate diaries of Jay Paul Getty and Bernard Baruch. They didn't manage first for quail... they managed only for quail, and all the other game species thrived.

pArdon my French...but only a total moron would shoot a turkey with shot as small as #9....

Turkey hunting has been my favorite hobby since I killed my first spring gobbler in 1966, using a 20 gauge Winchester 37. Since then I have used a lot of different guns and types of shells. Though a turkey is a big bird, he has a central nervous system that is quite vulnerable. From the top his head to the base of his neck is about 16". Punch just one hole through that and he will probably die. Punch a lot of holes through it and he will die instantly. This vulnerability is the reason many hunters started using TSS; I've used it for 9 seasons.

In that time, I've shot turkeys with TSS in size 7, 8, 8.5, 9, and 9.5. I started out using #8 in a 12 gauge gun. A #8 TSS pellet is the same weight as a #6.4 lead pellet, and that seemed to me to be as small as I wanted to go. But over the years other hunters were having success with #9 and smaller, and they were able to do it with smaller gauge guns. I decided to try #9 in 20 gauge several years ago and have switched to it exclusively. It does seem like small shot for such a big bird, but the fact that we are shooting them only in the head and neck is the reason it is so effective. My gun will produce around 300 hits in a 10 inch circle at 40 yards, and that translates into a whole lot of hits in the CNS of the turkey.

I hope this explanation helps everyone understand why the small shot is so popular.

Coosa,
I understand your reasoning. Charles Askins was definitive on many things, but incorrect about the distance that number 9 shot would carry effective killing energy. Since then several writers have talked about the effectiveness of multiple hits. On the surface it certainly doesn't sound like the best choice, but I imagine you could tell with the first shot whether you were stoning the bird dead.

John, well stated. Coosa, your response was well reasoned and remarkably restrained for someone being called a "moron" by the likes of jOe. Five years ago the same topic came up in the below thread link. Coosa posted photos of his turkey guns with optics. jOe stated anyone who used optics on a shotgun for turkeys "should stay on the porch." Then someone posted a photo of jOe with a dead turkey and a Benelli SBE with a scope and jOe accused them of being an internet stalker and crawfished around sputtering lame excuses after being exposed. jOe accused people of using TSS 9's ("pixie dust" as he called it) "stupid" and ruining their guns to pull off "stunts". He said folks have been told to use only "throwaway" guns with TSS. He later said "replaceable barrels." Five years later and he's been proven wrong by others' successes handloading tungsten and now Federal shotshell engineers and two other niche turkey ammo companies, Apex and Nitro Ammo, openly acknowledge the effectiveness of #9's to be effective and reliable in killing wild turkeys by their production and marketing of the same loads. This development was based on the success and efforts of handloaders like Coosa and others who demonstrated time after time the ethical effectiveness of light loads and small gauges on wild turkeys shooting diy handloads of Tungsten Super Shot. With TSS9's, a .410 can deliver its payload with better penetration and count density in a 10" circle than the 12 gauge and lead ammo of old shooting lead shot of any size at 40 yards. jOe's fall-back position now is that it is being used only by folks to kill turkeys at unethical ranges. Now those who use it have gone from being "stupid" 5 years ago to now being "morons". Here's the thread of five years ago:
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=324552&page=1
Too bad jOe isn't smiling in this photo of him, a turkey and the scoped SBE which he sheepishly acknowledged using after the photo was posted after he gratuitously insulted coosa the first time.
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Originally Posted By: coosa
I have not asked any custom gunmaker about this, but I will send the info to Ellis Brown and see what he says. Thanks for the tip! I'm also gonna send it to Connecticut Shotguns, but I suspect they will be horrified by the idea of someone asking them to build such a monstrosity. wink


Exactly...an unneeded monstrosity at that.

It's an abomination to mount a sight on a SxS.

If you can't see to shoot something as big as a turkey with a bead you should stay on the porch.

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Gil, that is an expertly executed take down. Despite being miserable with a cold, you�ve made my day. I don�t know which I dislike more....hypocrites or those who, in spite of overwhelming evidence, refuse to learn.