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Joined: May 2015
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2015
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Convo on a different thread got me thinking about this again...figured I'd canvas the clubhouse crowd.
Is it known why some Krupp barrels DON'T say Essen?
Is it because those that don't were made in Belgium under license? And those marked Essen were made there?
Also, i have seen 2 sources which state that Krupp steel was made under license after 1893 by Bethlehem and Crucible. But neither identifies the purposes for which it was licensed. So while rails would seem most likely...has anyone uncovered any source stating these American makers made Krupp tubes for the U.S. trade?
- NDG
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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Actually, Krupp only provided bar stock to a mechanic who thru his craft could transform the bar stock into a rough bored tube. So it is possible I guess that the bar stock was per a Krupp recipe under license of course, but at a different facility than Essen. Now tracing the rough bored tubes would be another task entirely. But pre-WWI the bulk, if not all, were transformed by the Liege mechanics.
Cheers,
Raimey
rse
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
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Krupp has/had many plants. They made great steel for barrels! Unfortunatly a lot of it went to big bores, cannon. I believe Essen was their lead plant for barrel steel.
bill
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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Interesting “Fluid Steel-Krupp Essen” with Armor Steel overstamp on a 1918 Field Grade.  Krupp barrels were cataloged as an available option by Hunter Arms 1900-1905, likely manufactured by license to Laurent Lochet-Habran & Acier Cockerill Liege.
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
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My Fox 16 (1915) has KRUPP marked barrels. I have had a couple other Foxes (12 and 20) marked KRUPP. No Essen marks.
C Man
Life is short
Quit your job.
Turn off the TV.
Go outside and play.
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2015
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Ok, so great observations thus far guys.
But does anyone have any sense, or even theory, as to why some have Essen and others don't?
NDG
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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Maybe the bar stock was made in Essen or it was a holdover for a place of origin? My wild, rampant speculation would be that if Essen is present that the bar stock was made in Essen and then the bar stock was shipped to wherever. If Essen is absent, then the bar stock is of the same recipe but licensed to another facility outside of Essen. I'll dig a bit and is there a time frame when "Essen" was present & when it was not? Or is it just sporadic?
Jn. Henry Andrews Toledo Steel Works Sheffield advertise on tubes as Sheffield but I'm hard pressed to believe the bar stock came to Liege from Sheffield? But it is possible of course.
Cheers,
Raimey
rse
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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The barrels on my Lefever 51xxx say "Krupp fluid steel" ...no Essen. So figure very roughly 1905 timeline. But as we know the timeline can be slippery with Lefevers.
What production years do others have for both their Essen and non-Essen guns?
NDG
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2013
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Nudge, I think some of it will depend on “how -and where”
If you are referring to the bottom of the barrels as pictured above that is a specific trademark. I believe I have seen papers previously posted by Dr. Drew Hause reference that trademark and proper usage. If you are referring to engraving on the top of the barrels “Krupp Fluid Steel- Lefever Arms Co “ that is not the official trademarking and doesn’t really have a convention. It also doesn’t guarantee they are truly Krupp.
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