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Originally Posted By: ClapperZapper
People always see things through their own lenses.

It's entirely possible that Steve is mistaken, and the rest of you just jumped into a contract negotiation canard without any facts or knowledge.

I wouldn't be so quick to grab the pitchforks and go storming the castle. The marketing reality is that most of you are old, and are done buying.

An aspirational magazine doesn't need you other than as a circulation chit. The magazine needs aspirational readers to serve their advertisers, the very people so many of you seem to despise. You aren't buying, they are.

Steve will either make a new deal or won't. But you will still be old and done buying from their advertisers.

Aging out of a genre is a natural step of life.



Well said CZ;

To my mind it is highly unlikely that he will now be able to make a new deal with Ralph, since he virtually urinated in Ralph's face via unwise and uncalled for whining in this BBS. My expectations are that Ralph will assign the duties of writing about fine guns and gunmaking where it should be to Vic Venters who has proven credentials, knowledge of the trade and credibility as well as better writing skills and understanding of what the readers want to read.

The best writing series that have ever illuminated the pages of Shooting Sportsman through the years were authored in the "Technicana" articles by Michael and CrossChissels; Vic Venters in his articles that were then published in book form; and from those contributed by Doug Tate whose writing skills and knowledge
are legendary. There have been from time to time contributions to the magazine by other authors that were excellent articles.

As a matter of fact and come to think of it, Vic would likely produce a better reading Shooting Sportman magazine with wider and greater circulation than Ralph is currently doing.

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Originally Posted By: ClapperZapper
People always see things through their own lenses.

It's entirely possible that Steve is mistaken, and the rest of you just jumped into a contract negotiation canard without any facts or knowledge.

I wouldn't be so quick to grab the pitchforks and go storming the castle. The marketing reality is that most of you are old, and are done buying.

An aspirational magazine doesn't need you other than as a circulation chit. The magazine needs aspirational readers to serve their advertisers, the very people so many of you seem to despise. You aren't buying, they are.

Steve will either make a new deal or won't. But you will still be old and done buying from their advertisers.

Aging out of a genre is a natural step of life.


Highly unlikely that "the rest of us" can be lumped together like you did. I could give a care whether Steve is right or wrong, or what the contract negotiations were. I was already tired of the "ads nauseam", and losing this column is the straw that broke the camel's back. Where do you get the idea that the contract negotiation info is what so many are reacting to?

You're a sharp guy, CZ. I'm surprised that you wouldn't be more cognizant of the mistake of lumping people together like that.

SRH


"With one foot in the grave ..........and one foot on the pedal, I was born a Rebel" T.P.
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Originally Posted By: bushveld

As a matter of fact and come to think of it, Vic would likely produce a better reading Shooting Sportman magazine with wider and greater circulation than Ralph is currently doing.


There is little doubt that Vic could produce a better magazine than about anyone.
Pretty sure that is not JMO


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I have resisted commenting on the subject, because I have known SDH for a decade and a half, or more. He used some of my guns for articles in SSM. In some articles, his fine photos were reduced in size to be about useless. Think of a stamp auction catalog. In the meantime the magazine had a full two page photo of 2 dogs jumping out of a pickup. I cannot guess why the magazine's choices. I quit the magazine unknowingly and was not aware of it being missing. A couple of years later, an offer of a cheap subscription brought me back, but I really have no interest in extending.

That being said, the business needs to make money. It is their decision on what to print with that in mind. That is what makes the world go around.

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Originally Posted By: Wonko the Sane
Originally Posted By: bushveld

As a matter of fact and come to think of it, ... would likely produce a better reading Shooting Sportman magazine with wider and greater circulation than Ralph is currently doing.


There is little doubt that ... could produce a better magazine than about anyone.
Pretty sure that is not JMO

The ultimate magazine, world class writers and content, pro pictures, zero compromise, and free for the asking. I wonder how many would ask.

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Originally Posted By: craigd
Originally Posted By: Wonko the Sane
Originally Posted By: bushveld

As a matter of fact and come to think of it, ... would likely produce a better reading Shooting Sportman magazine with wider and greater circulation than Ralph is currently doing.


There is little doubt that ... could produce a better magazine than about anyone.
Pretty sure that is not JMO

The ultimate magazine, world class writers and content, pro pictures, zero compromise, and free for the asking. I wonder how many would ask.


craigd

Just put a sign on the rack sayin’ Free, take one! like they do with the Truck Swapper out in front of the Piggly Wiggly.


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This thread makes me consider What makes us quit a magazine? Stay with me. Anybody enjoy Gray’s Sporting Journal?
My interests are varied. I like knives. I like hunting and guns. I opened this month’s issue and saw a full page advertisement for Chris Williams Knives. Ugh. Then read their “Best of 2017” and his singular folder (a production) was among their selection of only FOUR total accessories in the category. This handle-guy was found out on blade forums in many an opinion for misrepresenting as a real knife maker charging hi-custom prices for nicely custom-handled knives using what hasn’t really been disputed as Chinese pregound blades bought from Jantz etc. and not being transparent. Playing a fake on the unwitting and unknowledgable some years ago, using $10 blades. And the site still mimics the same preground blades. The guy IMO has consistently been opaque and shifting the website’s language or not disclosing what’s material to play the margins...

So Gray’s writes so beautifully about this Williams Knives new folder costing $150 and it’s obviously IMO (and others) a near duplicate copy of the cheap Ganzo G704 folder, Chinese, which you can buy for as low as $13 on Amazon. It’s only missing the keeper holes and w color switching, obviously the Chinese manufacture it and it’s been out on market a long time. It’s got to be along the same Chinese knife from the same Chinese factory. The Chinese at Ganzo obviously copied a Benchmade/Snody-designed folder, produced it, and now etch his name on it. Which Williams had claimed he engineered and designed it over 3 years long...? Of course there’s never proof to backup such stories...

I called the head name of Gray’s under Advertising to complain, in other words I asked him why did they disregard hundreds of reputable US custom and production knife makers implying decency)as selectees for their winner, much more declare a $13 Chinese made knife a Best of Anything from this handle assembler. And what about the people who will later find out its a Chinese cheapo w the Williams name etched on the blade, and it was Gray’s that assisted in moving that product for $150? A magazine looks the other way when it’s so easy for the internet search to prove of people slapping on handles yet creating grand fictions within their grand stories to pump through their hired Ad agency to get these glowing nonsense articles and awards into the mags. But hey, so-called us-made n manufactured n designed hipster articles and stories work so well w the newer generation, I guess.

His reply in short was “We understand Chris Williams is a controversial figure...” and “That knife isn.t claimed to be custom made...” and finally “We’ll look into it.” Sure. You already did or should’ve known. All you have to do is call USAKnifemakers in TX and ask how long the $18 Oyster knife blanks have been around (at least ten yrs) and see Williams’ $250 Edisto oyster knife uses the EXACT same design to look into the controversy of foisting someone foisting. And to think Garden&Gun in 2011made Chris Williams knives their Overall Winner in the sporting category for these Edisto oyster knives, claimed to be his design etc.. I never looked at that mag after that.

I came away from my conversation with Gray’s that Advertising was defending their choice. Sad. They took the money! I will cease subscribing to Grays only because of that. Advertising it’s necessary but you’d wish there was a more solid ethos to it.

Last edited by rrrgcy; 01/02/18 01:29 AM.
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Magazines are like sausages—it’s best not seeing them be made. Lonny von Rhodes


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I used to subscribe to Gray’s but now only pick up their bird hunting issue each fall.

I know it is easy to find fault with 100% of the pubs out there.

At one time I had 10 different subscriptions between bird hunting and fly fishing magazines. One day while looking at a pile of still wrapped magazines two feet high my wife offered I should choose the three I actually read. I dropped down to SSM and DGJ, recently adding Covey Rise.

My wife refers to them as my bird porn and double gun porn in that I really love the pictures as well as the content, sometimes the pictures more.

Having been the copy and later editorial editor of my college paper, I don’t think producing a superior product is as easy as some might think. If they can, go do it, more power to them and many here will subscribe.

All of us are different and key in on our predilections, good and bad.

Last edited by old colonel; 01/01/18 09:15 PM.

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Originally Posted By: rrrgcy
This thread makes me consider What makes us quit a magazine? Stay with me. Anybody enjoy Gray’s Sporting Journal?
My interests are varied. I like knives. I like hunting and guns. I opened this month’s issue and saw a full page advertisement for Chris Williams Knives. Ugh. Then read their “Best of 2017” and among their selection of the only FOUR accessories they chose his production folder as one. This handle-guy was found out on blade forums in many an opinion for misrepresenting as a real knife maker charging hi-custom prices for nicely custom-handled knives using what hasn’t really been disputed as Chinese pregound blades bought from Jantz etc. and not being transparent. Playing a fake on the unwitting and unknowledgable some years ago, using $10 blades. And the site still mimics the same preground blades. The guy IMO has consistently been opaque and shifting the website’s language or not disclosing materiality to play the margins...

So Gray’s writes so beautifully about this Williams Knives new folder costing $150 and it’s obviously IMO and others is a nearly 100% a cheap Ganzo G704 folder, Chinese, which you can buy for as low as $13 on Amazon. The Chinese at Ganzo obviously copied a Benchmade/Snody-designed folder, produced it, and now etch his name on it. Which Williams had claimed he engineered and designed it over 3 years long...?

I called the head name of Gray’s under Advertising to complain, I ask him why did they disregard hundreds of custom and production USA knife makers to select as their winner, much more declare a $13 Chinese made knife a Best of Anything. And what about the people who will buy a $13 knife for $150 w a different name etched on the blade to find out, and it was Gray’s that encouraged this? His reply was in short “We understand Chris Williams is a controversial figure...” “that knife isn.t claimed to be custom made...”

I came away from my conversation with Gray’s that Advertising was defending their choice. Sad. They took the money! I will cease subscribing to Grays only because of that. Advertising it’s necessary but you’d wish there was more solid ethos to it.


This happens all the time. For example, many people pay $40 to $50 for Yeti coffee mug when same thing can be had at Walmart for $10 to $20. When I have $150 to spend for pocket knife I buy Moki. When I want good inexpensive US-made folder I buy Buck from Walmart for $30 to $50. When I want quality utilitarian fixed blade knife for little money I turn to G. Sakai. This would be too utilitarian for most on this board, therefore, I recommend IC.CUT Hiro which offers nice line of hunting knives with stainless blades and cocobolo wood handles. One would be hard pressed to find something better for about $150. Ignorant people look at fancy adds in expensive magazines.

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