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Apr 27th, 2024
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Joined: Jul 2007
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 369 Likes: 2 |
In my online perusing of fine guns, I've been seeing many beautiful 10 gauge doubles at fair prices. They range in weight from 8 lb, to a beautiful behemoth of 10.25 lbs! I believe I've read that the standard 10 ga 2 7/8" load was 1 1/4 oz of shot. Was this altered based on weight? A 10 lb gun with 100 thou walls would seem to be designed for a heavier charge than a 8 lb double. Any ideas? As a duck hunter, a double capable of a heavy charge appeals to me..... well, ok all doubles appeal to me lol. But those especially
NRA Patron Life Member
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2008
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Ive got one load I shoot in all my double 10's. 1 1/4 oz of shot on top of Green Dot powder and a Federal 209A. Remington SP10 wad. No filler needed and great looking 2 7/8 in crimps. All I ever change is the shot size.or type.
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Joined: Dec 2008
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2008
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10 G 2 7/8 inch increased shot weight from Black Powder era 1 1/4 oz to 1 3/8 oz when progressive powders were introduced in the 1930s. Increasing even more when the shell was expanded to 3 1/2 inch. Search on line you can probably find specific details. Double Gun Journal ran a 2 part series on Ithaca’s Super 10 that has detail on loads.
I prefer Black Powder ballistic equilvent 1 1/4 oz 2 7/8 inch loads using Green Dot, or 1 1/8 oz target loads with Red Dot. You could load heavier but thickness of metal is only one thing to consider. One of my short 10s, now restored, came to me with stock problems from heavy loads. 2 others are Damascus, probably safe with heavy loads but see no reason to push them.
Parker club web site is perhaps the best source of current short 10 information including recent pressure test of Green Dot and Red Dot loads.
Boats
Last edited by Boats; 12/23/17 07:15 AM.
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Joined: Jan 2002
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,154 Likes: 1152 |
I think I might enjoy a well struck 8 - 8 1/2 lb. ten, but having owned a 32" barreled, 10 + lb. damascus Smith previously, I don't want another, even for ducks. I loaded for mine using IMR 7625 and Rem 3 1/2" hulls cut down to yield 2 7/8" load. I could get it moving quickly enough to chase down a crossing woodie, but it was tough, and I felt kinda stupid doing it because I had other doubles that were so much better suited. Used it in the turkey woods a time or two, and in Arkansas on mallards. It really did come close to handling like a pig on a shovel.
I used nothing but S. Bell's recipes from his articles in the DGJ. It was used as trade fodder for my 32" Smith 16 ga. FWE.
SRH
Last edited by Stan; 12/23/17 08:47 AM. Reason: grammar
May God bless America and those who defend her.
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Joined: Apr 2012
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 753 |
as said above- look to the reloading forum on the Parker board - some of us have had additional loads tested with more available powders-
my tens range from 9 to 10 1/2 pounds and handle fine- look at the 6 frame Parker in the new issues of DGJ- the smaller of the two big boys in our shooting group - 10ga day at the marsh is always fun.
an ounce and a quarter of bismuth or tungsten will deliver a solid killing shot on a duck at a distance past my shooting confidence, and while our clays club limits loads to an ounce and an eight, when you see a long distance target just disappear you get an appreciation for the pattern the extra full chokes can deliver
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Joined: Dec 2001
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743 |
Note that in the early years of the 10 gauge 2 5/8" was also a standard chambering. The "Heavy" load for a 10 in the black powder era was 5 drams with 1 1/4 oz of shot. Lighter powder charges were available as well as 1 1/8 oz loads as in that time frame the 10 was often carried as a field gun. My only 10 gauge is a circa 1890 E grade Lefever 10 lb gun with 32" Damascus barrels "&" 3" chambers. I suspect this gun was ordered with those chambers as in that period of time chambers could be pretty well ordered to suit the whim of the user & to my knowledge 3" has never been a standard in the 10, so unlikely it would have been Re-chambered to that length at a later date.
That 8 lb 10 may well have 2 5/8" chambers & have been built as a field gun. I once saw & was able to pick up & handle a Barber & Lefever 10 gauge hammer gun. This gun had 28" barrels & though i was not able to weigh it I seriously doubt if it exceeded 7 1/2 lbs. I would have loved to have had that gun, but unfortunately it wasn,t for sale. A serious Lefever Collector had it on display at a Gun Show in Nashville TN way back when the TN Gun Collectors Association put on some pretty good shows there. About the only shows anywhere close around this area now are just "Black Guns" & such. Not sure if the TGCA even still exists now or not, I seriously doubt it. -
Last edited by 2-piper; 12/24/17 02:43 PM. Reason: Corrected double posting
Miller/TN
I Didn't Say Everything I Said, Yogi Berra
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 753
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Apr 2012
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Note that in the early years of the 10 gauge 2 5/8" was also a standard chambering. The "Heavy" load for a 10 in the black powder era was 5 drams with 1 1/4 oz of shot. Lighter powder charges were available as well as 1 1/8 oz loads as in that time frame the 10 was often carried as a field gun. My only 10 gauge is a circa 1890 E grade Lefever 10 lb gun with 32" Damascus barrels "&" 3" chambers. I suspect this gun was ordered with those chambers as in that period of time chambers could be pretty well ordered to suit the whim of the user & to my knowledge 3" has never been a standard in the 10, so unlikely it would have been Re-chambered to that length at a later date.
That 8 lb 10 may well have 2 5/8" chambers & have been built as a field gun. I once saw & was able to pick up & handle a Barber & Lefever 10 gauge hammer gun. This gun had 28" barrels & though i was not able to weigh it I seriously doubt if it exceeded 7 1/2 lbs. I would have loved to have had that gun, but unfortunately it wasn,t for sale. A serious Lefever Collector had it on display at a Gun Show in Nashville TN way back when the TN Gun Collectors Association put on some pretty good shows there. About the only shows anywhere close around this area now are just "Black Guns" & such. Not sure if the TGCA even still exists now or not, I seriously doubt it. -
Note that in the early years of the 1 gauge 2 5/8" was also a standard chambering. The "Heavy" load for a 10 in the black powder era was 5 drams with 1 1/4 oz of shot. Lighter powder charges were available as well as 1 1/8 oz loads as in that time frame the 10 was often carried as a field gun. My only 10 gauge is a circa 1890 E grade Lefever 10 lb gun with 32" Damascus barrels "&" 3" chambers. I suspect this gun was ordered with those chambers as in that period of time chambers could be pretty well ordered to suit the whim of the user & to my knowledge #' has never been a standard i the 10, so unlikely it would have been Re-chambered to that length at a later date.
That 8 lb 10 may well have 2 5/8" chambers & have been built as a field gun. I once saw & was able to pick up & handle a Barber & Lefever 10 gauge hammer gun. This gun had 28" barrels & though i was not able to weigh it I seriously doubt if it exceeded 7 1/2 lbs. I would have loved to have had that gun, but unfortunately it was,t for sale. A serious Lefever Collector had it on display at a Gun Show in Nashville TN way back when the TN Gun Collectors Association put on some pretty goos shows there. About the only shows anywhere close aroud this area now are just "Black Guns" & such. Not sure if the TGCA even still exists now or not, I seriously doubt it. -
that is the most double post of all double posts  i have one - a JP Clabrough & Bros that has 2 5/8" - all my Parkers have been 2 7/8, even the one with barrels marked 6lbs 7 oz- no doubt a gun like that could have been lengthened if the customer asked for it
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Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 156 Likes: 17
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 156 Likes: 17 |
I have a two-barrel set and included were the owner's loads from 1890. Perhaps someone can transcribe the prescription?  
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,889 Likes: 107
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,889 Likes: 107 |
When Union Metallic Cartridge Co. began offering factory loaded shotgun shells, circa 1891, They offered 10-gauge shells loaded with as much as 5 drams of powder and 1 1/4 ounce of shot. By the 1893 catalog where the SMOKELESS and TRAP shells loaded with smokeless powders were charted separately from the CLUB black powder shells, the heaviest smokeless powder loads offered were 3 3/4 drams pushing 1 1/4 ounces of shot. For 1905, UMC upped the maximum 10-gauge load in their ARROW shell to 4 drams of bulk smokeless powder pushing 1 1/4 ounce of shot. The next year UMC upped the maximum 10-gauge load in their ARROW shell again to 4 1/4 drams of bulk smokeless powder (or 34 grains of dense smokeless powder such as Infallible or Ballistite) pushing 1 1/4 ounce of shot. That remained the heaviest smokeless powder 10-gauge load offered until Western Cartridge Co. introduced their high velocity, progressive burning powder, Super-X Super-Ten load of 1 5/8 ounce of shot.
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,533 Likes: 169
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,533 Likes: 169 |
https://books.google.com/books?id=hrRMAA...206&f=falseCurtis & Harvey No. 6 is a wonderful black powder of olde For 12 Bore 3 Drams of Curtis & Harvey No 4 black grease proof wad 3/8 inch thick felt wad card wad 1 1/8 ounce nos. 8, 7, or 6 shot Card wad For 10 Bore 3 1/2 drams of Curtis & Harvey #6 Filler wad 3/8 inch thick felt wad soft wad 1 1/8 ounce nos. 8, 7, or 6 shot Card wad Who else can correct these or add more words ? Mike
Last edited by skeettx; 12/23/17 06:11 PM.
USAF RET 1971-95 ![[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]](http://www.jpgbox.com/jpg/57865_80x60.jpg)
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