doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Who took this photo?

https://gundigest.com/more/classic-guns/gundigest-9-24-09-pieper

Well I didn't realise that Henri Pieper was born in Germany. There's some history a short way down the article
Is it possible that Nessonvaux was the barrel maker ? Another article says that's the name of a town. Time for some more reading I think.

(Had to edit this post as I messed up the links)

That's why I'm trying to do the right thing here.

If I can't get permissions for the images, I guess I could delete them from the document and just say; "There are known guns with these patterns in the damascus barrels."

I also need to get in touch with Christian Schnura, the developer of the Thor II� application. If Christian says no, all of my work on this document will be for naught.

Thanks again for all help provided!

Thanks Nick for your input on this thread! Nessonvaux is a town in Belgium.



ROMAC, it would be great if the owner of the gun would allow me to use images of it. Better yet, if he would be willing to have new photos taken of it!

President Arthur's gun is one that I included in my document. I was using images from Rock Island Auction's web site. They sold the gun in 2015. I called Rock Island Auction yesterday, asking for permission to use their photos. They were very nice about it and a few hours after my call, they emailed me large format image files of all the photos they had of the gun. I received permission from them to use the photos anywhere I wish to. How awesome is that!!

That's very good news for you, Steve! As Drew pointed out, just because something appears on the Internet doesn't mean you have permission to use it. Not so long ago, on another website, someone put up the entire text of Corey Ford's classic story "The Road to Tinkhamtown". Ford's long dead, but that doesn't mean the story is in the public domain. It's a tricky business, and there's the potential that both the individual doing the posting and the BB/website on which the material is posted can find themselves in legal difficulties.

I seriously doubt if many people are making the effort to copyright pictures of their Damascus barrels. Most of these photos of Damascus tubes with names interwoven into the pattern have been posted in multiple places on the internet for years without problems. People are selling and trading copies of a Double Gun Journal that contains photos of a D.M. Lefever crossbolt gun I own, and there is probably nothing I could do about it. I'd have to be a dick to even have the thought cross my mind anyway.

In the case of Rock Island Auction granting permission to use images they had of a gun they auctioned in the past, that usage with attribution will amount to free advertising for their business. But it was nice of them to supply the image files and grant permission to use them.

I know who it is as well but I don't think that pic is from his gun. He found his by buying a Pieper with blued barrels and then discovering they were Damascus. What a prize to discover!

Wow!! If there is indeed a second gun with the exact same damascus pattern, that would be huge! At least to me.

As is probably already known, my document explains how words were placed into gun barrel damascus patterns. A section of my already written document, is a speculative commentary on the challenges of creating letters in a billet of gun barrel material. It begins with the observation that the material required to make a set of barrel tubes is rather small, meaning that the billet required would be of small dimensions. The small physical size of the billet would increase the difficulty of creating the lettering, given the challenge of stacking little pieces of iron and steel in the billet to form the letters. Creating the lettering on a larger scale would be easier.

The next observation in my commentary, comes from my extensive experience as a damascus smith. I would be apprehensive about making a billet which would only provide the minimum amount of material required for the project. Making damascus is a complicated and challenging process. No matter how experienced the blacksmith, failure is always on option. If I were given the task of creating such a singular masterpiece and if there were also a deadline for its completion; such as a presentation date, I would want to make enough material to make four or five barrel tubes.

This larger billet, would make it easier to create the lettering and also offer the opportunity to make several finished barrel tubes. I would choose the two tubes with the finest figure to build into the masterpiece gun. But that would leave the extra tubes, which would be a waste to throw away after so much work and cost. However, it would not be a good idea to allow them to be discovered as having the same pattern as the masterpiece, because that would minimize the significance of masterpiece as being singular. The option? Just blue the remaining barrels to hide their pattern and use them to build other guns.

I believe this second gun carries the barrels made by the smiths as insurance against failure. That would make it very unique and also revealing of the secrets of the barrel smiths. It would be very interesting to compare the serial numbers of the original Pieper pattern gun and this second gun, to see if they are sequential.

Steve, just general thoughts. The bluing may have been done at a later date and at a time when damascus wasn't appreciated as much. I'd guess that even if one or the other gun used tubes that were made as a backup, the serial numbers may not turn out to have much relation to each other.

The blued gun, or both, could be interesting. It's possible that neither is a showcase gun, but probably cost some price premium. The gunmaker may have wanted a set or more of special tubes, but I wonder if a barrel maker wanted to advertise their skills. There was probably some point in time when gunmakers didn't know that was possible, and the skilled barrel maker may have wanted to demonstrate it to the trade. Only thoughts, I'd really like to see your document, great stuff.

Steve, it's my recollection that there were at least two of the Pieper barrels BEFORE the member here discovered his.

Oh. Well. That would have been good information for me to have known....

Guess I was just excited that the existence of a second set of barrels with this pattern, could add relevance to my assertion that making a small billet of word pattern barrel material would not be the smith's first choice.

Clearly you guys are the knowledgeable historians and I obviously am not. My specialty is in the mechanics of making damascus barrels. I should stick to that, until you guys educate me some more.

It seems reasonable that the Pieper, Remington and other barrels with manufacturer's names could be created for more than one gun. Guns made for specific individuals might be different. You know; if a second gun with Zenobe Gramme tubes shows up, I'm jumping all over it! LOL!!

Thanks for the education guys!! I'm signing off to celebrate the holiday.

Merry Christmas to all!!!