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Joined: Jul 2012
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Do any of you think they could have been included in the War Repatriations after the "Great War" that were so hard on Germany?
Mike

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I know they had to make guns outside of Germany after WWII. The French-made Walthers come to mind. This change sometimes in 1950s. I see no logic for them to offer Suhl guns assembled or finished in St.Etienne especially in France where know self-respecting Frenchman would buy German made or designed game gun. This is analogous of trying to sell B.C. Miroku My Luck to WWII vet here in 1950s or 1960s. crazy Looking at these ATM gun I'm not sure I would pick one over something made in Suhl in the 50s or same there before WWII. One interesting side note is that Germans flooded English market with mass-produced game guns among them Merkel O/U largely in response to that invasion the English stared practice of staming Not English Made or Not English Make on those guns to protect their own industry.

There is another enigma to me out there from between the wars described as Abesser Merkel when offered for sale. What I seen were game guns and bolt actioned rifles often in african caliber magnums. The common denaminator was very very high quality. I know nothing about that maker, but clearly it focused on high end gun market.

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ellenbr Offline OP
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Mr. Brown:

Ah, not a shot but a path to enlightenment. There's more here than meets the eye. Why would Merkel Brothers license another factory in another country if there wasn't a higher profit margin.

Syndicat Liégeois Pour la Fabrication des Armes de Guerre filed for protection in 1884 w/ Auguste Francotte in the mix.

https://books.google.com/books?id=c2MMAAAAYAAJ&lpg=PA197&dq=syndicat%20li%C3%A9geois%20pour%20la%20fabrication%20des%20armes%20de%20guerre&pg=PA197#v=onepage&q=syndicat%20li%C3%A9geois%20pour%20la%20fabrication%20des%20armes%20de%20guerre&f=false
(Copy & Paste)

Gebrüder Böhler filed for trademark protection in Belgium in 1895:

Böhler
Boehler
Böhlerstahl
Boehlerstahl
Aciers Boehler
Sigfried
Boreas
Blitz Stahl
and some odd knight with 2 shields?


Sauer filed for protection about the same time.

Merkel was sourcing rough blanks, as was Gebrüder Rempt, etc. from Sl in Herstal and Louis Kelber was putting his magical
finshing touch on them. Bar stock was imported from the country of origin of the specific steel & converted into tubes in a rough state. Germany was taking advantage of cheap labour in St. Etienne prior to WWII just as they were in Liege prior to WWI. Arms weren't made from the actual soil around Suhl but were manufactured from components sourced from wherever the Suhl mechanics could source cheap labour & quality products, which were built on the backs of unsung talented mechanics in Belgium, France, etc. who were doing the bulk of the heavy lifting.


Paul Abesser & Ernst Merkel did have a lovely Büchsenmacherei und Gewehrfabrik. Moose Snoot of Sweden made a document find which indicates that Abesser & Merkel filed for a listing as a concern on December 31st, 1919 to commence business as Abesser & Merkel on the 1st of January, 1920. Paul Abesser is typically thought of as a firearms merchant or sales agency, but he does have an 1899 listing as a Büchsenmachermeister. And there was an Ernst Merkel that acquired his master mechanic's sheepskin on 14th, 1929, so more research needs to be performed on this concern.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

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Jagerwhacker, I also have a Q1 200E from Suhl and there's no question the ATM gun is nicer and more refined. The newer 200E does have the articulated front trigger that the ATM gun lacks, but that's about it.

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Never had ATM but one of the better guns I have owned was mid 50s 201E. It had nice hand engraving, articulated front trigger and Bohler steel barrels plus stamping indicating barrels were soft-soldered. Despite being like new when purchased it was very user friendly meaning one did not have to strain and put the gun over the knee to open up the action. The weight was just under 6.5lb with 28" barrels.

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ellenbr Offline OP
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Well, fortunately I am the current custodian of one of those ATMs and boy is it a lively wand.

[Linked Image from thumbs2.imgbox.com]

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

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I think aTm is currently 4-7 overall and 1-6 in the SEC. One should not call them "lively" this year.

Last edited by Argo44; 11/20/22 09:51 PM.

Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
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ellenbr Offline OP
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Indeed, maybe just on the cusp?? Hopefully next year??? But the Big Game is Saturday.....


On another note, I sent you an email asking if you knew the Korean >>White-Horse<< group? I ran across a fella about your age & was in your line of work many moons ago & he seems to have been embedded with such a group.


Serbus,

Raimey
rse

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ellenbr Offline OP
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Originally Posted by DoubleTake
[Linked Image from imagizer.imageshack.us]

This one has this extra pair of ivory beads for a total of four. Nice light 12 gauge just at a hair under 6 lbs. 5 oz.

I believe I am the current custodian of this exact example??

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

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ellenbr Offline OP
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If so, who removed the stock sling swivel and put the Ebony piece as a replacement.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

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