doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Pressures of Early 1900s Shotshells?

Does anyone have any reference material that indicates what chamber pressures were used for loading any of the original factory paper shotshells? There were others but most of the early manufacturers paper shotshells were from Union Metallic, Remington, Peters, Winchester Western and Federal. I know brass shotshells were the norm until the paper shells of the 1890s and early 1900s but they would be different and many were handloaded. What I am curious to find is if there is any "data" on the early paper shells by the factories. I have not found any; especially from these very earliest "factory" loaded shells.
Maybe there was no standards for pressures back in those earliest days of shotshell manufacturing.

Here you go
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1F2sQuPm05IE4VWYYnCkvuXmYEzQoWd_SQgaAfUOZEFU/preview

After reading that I don't feel so bad when I used to ram those Kent TM's through my Nitro Special even though I heard her groan when I fired one.

Nor do I feel bad blasting a slug through her. I'll use it for deer hunting again this year.

I doubt you have anything to worry about.

A Nitro is a brute. I've seen a bunch of those that look like they have spent the last 80 years in the bottom of a duckboat, and the owners were still banging away with them. There was also the article in DGJ about the similar condition Nitro Special 12, that was off the face to boot, repaired with brass shim stock, fired for 20 seasons with heavy duck loads, traded away, and still being used like that.

Best,
Ted

Yes they are Ted!!!

I finally did something right. With the other shotguns I've owned and sold over the years I was smart enough to keep that one.

Thank you very much! As I thought, the pressures of the early loads were quite "strong". My question was generated because of a discussion with my gunsmith on the loads that would be suitable for a circa 1905 shotgun.

Please, what 1905 shotgun, double or single or ??
What matrix for the barrel steel?

Keep in mind those really high pressure 1 1/4 ounce 12-gauge loads were the very heaviest loads our North American ammunition companies offered. There were a lot 1 and 1 1/8 ounce 12-gauge loads offered with charges as light as 20 to 24 grains of Infallible or Ballistite or 2 1/2, 2 3/4 or 3 drams of bulk smokeless powder.

Then on the other end of the spectrum we see many instances of old time Pigeon shooters using loads with heavier charges then any of the factories offered. Probably the reason Parker research letters often include the gun being back to Meriden for rejointing!!

Indeed

October 19, 1895 Sporting Life
http://library.la84.org/SportsLibrary/SportingLife/1895/VOL_26_NO_04/SL2604014.pdf
Dr. Williamson, of Milwaukee, Wis., has just purchased a new gun of more than ordinary proportions. The Doctor was quite taken with Carver's Cashmore gun, having long barrels and shooting a big load in a 3 1/4 inch shell; but desiring to give the American gunmakers a chance he ordered a gun from the Lefever Arms Company, of Syracuse, N. Y. but at the same time rather doubted their ability to make such a weapon as he desired. However, the gun was furnished and Dr. Williamson killed 79 out of 80 live birds on one trial, and 74 out of 75 targets, part being doubles.
The gun is a Lefever, 12-gauge, weighing 8 1/4 pounds, 32-inch barrels, and chambered for a 3 1/4 inch shell, and guaranteed to stand 4 1/2 Drams of �E.C.� powder, which is the amount of powder which he uses.
(1 1/4 oz. with 3 3/4 Dram �Schultze� was about 14,000 psi. �Schultze� pressures were somewhat lower than �E.C.�)

On the other hand, loads that were OK in a new gun in 1905 may not be advised in the same gun in 2017. The wood is now 112 years old. Pressure does not equal recoil, but pressure is what produces velocity, which generates recoil. Just because you don't rupture your barrels doesn't mean that you are not doing damage or accelerating wear by running it pedal to the metal.