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Apr 29th, 2024
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,272 Likes: 525
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,272 Likes: 525 |
"F. Beesley patents 425 & 14488 of 1884 and H.A.A. Thorns patent of 7242 of 1894"
Regarding Lancasters, these patents are unique in that two different guns can be made using this design...a sidelock and a "body action". The body action looks like a A&D type boxlock, but it's not...its mechanism is entirely different from the a&d.
I'd like to see the inside works on this Crecent/Triumph and see how it really compares to the Beesely/Thorn patent. The compressors on the action flats look nothing like the compressors on a Lancaster, and the barrels are also lacking the compressor bar fitted through the lumps.
This action actually, to my eyes anyway, closer resembles the Smtih easy opener used on Churchills, Rossons, etc.
Dustin
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 514 Likes: 13
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 514 Likes: 13 |
"F. Beesley patents 425 & 14488 of 1884 and H.A.A. Thorns patent of 7242 of 1894"
Regarding Lancasters, these patents are unique in that two different guns can be made using this design...a sidelock and a "body action". The body action looks like a A&D type boxlock, but it's not...its mechanism is entirely different from the a&d.
I'd like to see the inside works on this Crecent/Triumph and see how it really compares to the Beesely/Thorn patent. The compressors on the action flats look nothing like the compressors on a Lancaster, and the barrels are also lacking the compressor bar fitted through the lumps.
This action actually, to my eyes anyway, closer resembles the Smtih easy opener used on Churchills, Rossons, etc.
Dustin
Dustin, I believe Beesley patent 425 and his US patent 34040 are the same. https://www.google.com/patents/US320040#v=onepage&q&f=false The pin/screw locations in the patent drawings match the frame screws in the Crescent. The only variance I see is the omission of #14 - crossbar and the pivot levers #13 are extended and acted on by the barrel flats. In doing so the frame cut is reduced to a window for the pivot levers #13 which should make for a stronger frame than the Lancaster design. A variety of self and assisted openers are covered here: https://shotguncollector.com/category/in-english/John
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,272 Likes: 525
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,272 Likes: 525 |
I'd like to see the gun broken down to the bits. If you have the KSA's to do so...that would be awesome! Tell me, does the Crecent/Triumph have a block safety (type of intercepting sear)? What is really like to see is your guns mainspring. It's a fascinating gun John, and thanks for posting about it. I have never seen one and to be honest never knew something like this was being built in the US.
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 514 Likes: 13
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 514 Likes: 13 |
Dustin,
I do plan to take it down, but it may be a while. I will post pictures when it happens.
John
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 28
Boxlock
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Boxlock
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 28 |
The British test to see if a gun is built on a self-opening action is to turn the gun upside down and open the top lever. If the gun opens vertically and stays open, it is a self opener.
Otherwise the gun is an assisted opener. Thus many who claim they make "self-opening action" are mistaken.
But in the heat of shooting a true assisted opener is a pretty good thing.
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 28
Boxlock
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Boxlock
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 28 |
Interesting that the ad does not specifically state that it is self opening. However it beats around the point by saying that the gun opens and cocks easily. The original Beesley/Purdey design was introduced and advertised as "Purdey's Rebounding Lock Hammerless Gun." At this time we do not know when the term self-opener was applied to the Purdey sxs. We do know, if I recall the late great Don Masters, that Purdeys complained to Robert Churchill when he claimed the Premier was a "self-opening" gun and he then relented and dubbed the two Premier designs and the Hercules were "assisted opening." I can't recall the date.
Last edited by Niemann; 06/16/18 11:22 AM.
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