doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Dating early 20th Century French Shotguns

French shotguns are a lot like French women.....nice to look at fun to handle but not something you want to electro pencil your ss number on the flats....there is always somebody trying to handle her and you always have to wipe off the finger prints and stuff her back in the safe and spin the lock
....

Does that mean that you have electro-penciled your SS# on your non-French wife flats?

Sounds pretty bitter GN. Did you have a bad experience?

The mores for the French and Italians are a bit different. In France if a girl gets dressed up, shoes, purse...you have to say something..compliment what you see. To do otherwise would be an insult and negate the reason she got dressed up in the first place. In modern America saying something like, "those shoes look amazing on you," could get you hailed up on charges.

And for years wife would say something like, "I saw you looking at that woman in the street." I'd reply, "Ma cherie, why would I look at any woman when I'm with the most beautiful woman in the world." WRONG RESPONSE. The correct one was, "Well, actually you know she was looking at me and I had to be polite."

Stamp Manufacture Fransaise:
https://postimg.org/image/k86ux91f9/][/url

I've been reading a marvelous catalog for the 1891 universal exposition in Saint Etienne which has some 15 pages on the history of Stephanois gun making and the Status of the industry there in 1891. I'll translate it as time permits because it explains in some detail how Liege got a jump on Saint Etienne and France fell behind in gun innovation in the mid-19th century.
https://archive.org/details/lexpositiondesai00vach

But it had this picture of Didier-Drevet - since he dated his barrels and we've talked about him plenty here, thought it'd be good to post a photo:



The catalog is great for history. But it is a broadsheet in a way touting the rebirth of Saint Etienne arms industry. It is poetically artistic. it praises the engraving, barrels, new patents, etc. It does not go into the cartridges the guns are chambered for.

This line further refined the date of the changeover from cm to mm in Saint-Etienne - to at least post 11 June 1912
https://doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=578429&page=3

"We've established that the change back to mm to measure chambers from cm in Saint-Étienne occurred in 1912. We don't know exactly when. But:
-- it was definitely 1912 per dated Didier Drevet barrels
-- On the Darne number chart (Ted will caution about exceptions) it happened just around serial C600-700 (1912 per the chart):
. . . . . . .- C692, a 12 gauge with a chamber stamp "6.5".
. . . . . . .- C643, a 20 gauge with a chamber stamp "70".

Now if Berthon Fréres trademarked "Canons Gallia" on 11 Jun 1912...then you've likely dated your gun to within a couple of months - summer 1912. (And incidentally we've established that the changeover to mm was after 11 June 1912).

Raimey, you and I were thinking the same thing. I suppose it's possible he was using Canons Gallia before the trademark...but....heck...lets date the gun.

David, the common idea in gun scholarship is that it's darned difficult to date a Saint-Étienne gun - there are no French dating stamps. But by chance, dating your gun doesn't get much better than this."

https://www.naturabuy.fr/Fusil-ROBUST-N-2-item-7476679.html
Sur cette annonce, un Robust numéro de série 38710 avec des chambres en cm.
Je ne pense pas que cette arme a été fabriquée en 1912 pour être commercialisée à partir de 1913. Je pense que le chambrage en cm a été au delà de 1912.

Translation: Per this advertisement, a Robust serial 38710 with chambers in cm. I don't think that that arm was made in 1912 because it was sold beginning in 1913. I think that the chambering in cm ended after 1912:
https://www.naturabuy.fr/Fusil-ROBUST-N-2-item-7476679.html



Reply: Merci Fab comme d'habitude: Cette (un arm, une fusil?) Robust est vraiment interressant.

Cependant, notre conclusion que le changement de cm a mm a Saint-Étienne banc d'épreuve était en 1912 était basé sur cette fusil-de-chasse avec canon par Didier-Drevet avec une date 1912 - chambre en mm. Je dois me demander si les canons pour le Robust avait été deja a la banc d'épreuve en 1912 avant la creation du Robust?
(However, our conclusion that the change-over from cm to mm at the Saint-Etienne proof house was in 1912 was based on this shotgun with barrels by Didier Drevet with a 1912 date - chambered in mm. I must wonder whether the barrels of the Robust might have been to the proof house in 12912 before the release of the "Robust?")

--. 1912 13689? 18.4; 65 chambered in mm; Note the 1912 shift to mm.
http://www.naturabuy.fr/Fusil-Juxtapose-St-Etienne-cal-12-70-Didier-DREVET-item-3577295.html


-- Il y a un Berthon Freres Fusil de Chasse avec Canons Gallia...Dépôt de marque 11 Jun 1912...avec chambre en cm: "Berthon Frères, fabricants d'armes a St Etienne de 1900 à 1910. Successeurs de la Maison Martin Gerest. Dépôt de deux marques de fabrique le 26 avril 1912 pour platine "Perfecta"et une autre. Deux autres dépôts le 11 juin 1912 pour canons "Gallia" et carabine "La Lorraine". Devient en 1922 Laspoussas-Berthon & Cie, puis Laspoussas & Driol en 1923. L'entreprise a existé jusqu'en 1950." Donc, la conclusion était le changement était après ce date. Mais bien sur, il est possible que il y avait des "dérapage."
(There was a Berthon Freres Shotgun with "Gallia" barrels...trademarked on 11 Jun 1912, with chambers in cm...."Berthon Freres gun makers in Saint-Etienne from 1900 to 1910: Successors to Martin-Gerest. Patent two trademarks on 26 April 12012 for the side-lock "Perfecgta" and another. Two other trademarks the 11 June 1912 for "Gallia" barrels and for the rifle "La Lorraine." It became in 1922 Laspoussas-Berthon & Cie, then Laspoussas & Diol in 1923. The company existed until 1950." Thus, the conclusion was that the changeover was after that date (11 Jun 1912). But of course it's possible that there was some "slippage.")

Argo:

Trying to follow along but what year here, 1912?

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

The only place that looks good flat on a woman is her stomach, and a little "rivelling" there, in the abs, is certainly desirable.