doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com "Bored For Nitro Powder"

In the 1886-7 Chamberlin Cartridge Co. catalog they list specific loadings with over-gauge wads for Parker Bros. guns --

As a marketing person, I find this thread highly amusing

You're such a cynic Aleksei

No mention of ANY powder guarantee

Don't really see anything "Amusing" in trying to determine just what was meant by some "Marketing Phrase". What I find sometimes amusing & other times Highly Offensive is the phrases marketers will use to push their products.
A good example of this ;later was back when "Water Beds" were making a "Splash" on the market. Many folks were "Justifiably" concerned about the additional load on their floors. Water Bed Marketers began publishing the phrase that a 100 lb woman in spike heels placed mor PSI on the floor than did their water beds. That of course was absolutely irrelevant, driving a nail in to secure the sub floor put more PSI on the joist then either but it doesn't break the joist or cause it ti sag. total Weight does that, NOT PSI. Even a regular Full size water mattress contained more than 800 lbs of water, That puts a lot more stress on the floor joist than a 100 lb woman, matter not the PSI. The spike heel might dent or puncture the floor surface but it is not going to stress it structurally that all that excess weight.
Virtually all Marketing has to be taken with a BIG GRAIN of SALT, or you might get hooked into believing a lie.

We ought to know by now if that Woolwich gun lived up to its name.
I personally have never heard of them before, but I will take two.
O.M

This one might still be available Moses
http://www.victorianweb.org/technology/military/7.html

Re: nitro powder in brass shells I tried to find a specific historical reference, but could not, and was hoping someone with expertise in BP shotshell loading might comment.
The usual statement is that brass cases had a greater internal capacity and required very different loading components. Both Bulk and certainly Dense Smokeless would not be compressed by the over-powder wads and combustion was incomplete. There may also be a theoretical risk of detonation/'pressure excursions'.

Smokeless Powder DDT has been...uh...vigorously debated here
http://www.trapshooters.com/threads/smokeless-powder-ddt.245629/

From the May 1903 Baltimore Arms Co. catalog --



Note the first sentence.

From a late 1950's Lyman Ideal Handbook, "Quoted from Alcan Literature";

Our 645 Berdan primer for Alcan brass shells is a NM-NC shotshell primer. The Berdan primer of regular shotshell force is satisfactory for most types of smokeless shotgun powders.

When the maximum or magnum load is desired it is necessary to drill from the inside of the case with a 15/64"drill & then reverse the case using a counter-sink or 3/8" drill and just touch the primer pocket enough to allow the flange of a G209F primer to fit flush with the case.

Any powder charges recommended for the regular case is quite satisfactory with an all brass case.

The most simple & satisfactory method for keeping the overshot "B" wad in position is to place a few drops of Sodium Silicate (waterglass) over the wad. Waterglass is more satisfactory than wax as it forms a firm hold between the wad & brass case which takes the place of "Crimp Pressure" normally accomplished by turning over the paper tubes. This crimp pressure is very helpful in obtaining uniform ballistics.

The wads used in a brass case should be of a special type which are slightly larger than the regular wad used in a paper shell. This is necessary because the wall thickness of the brass shell is thinner than that of the regular paper tube. These oversize wads give better gas sealing and a better load results. The use of oversize wads in brass shells is quite safe. Alcan furnishes these at no extra cost in all gauges from 12 to .410.

This handbook has lost its cover over the years but I believe it is #40. I know I acquired it around 1956 or '57.

I am personally of the firm believe that an adequate primer & adequate sealing of the top wad is the real criteria for using smokeless in brass cases. I think that in the very early days adequate primers for smokeless were non existent for the brass cases thus these early warnings against its use.

Thank you for that info 2-piper.
A flat statement such as "no nitro in brass" with no explanation at all, is no answer at all, to an enquiring mind.
We need reasons.
Lyman & Alcan satisfactorily answered my question.
Now I can forge ahead with loads for old guns.
O.M

Moses;
One other reason has occurred to me & that is the effect of mercuric primers on brass. Mercury makes brass brittle. This was a problem with early rifle reloading with smokeless. It seems the black powder fouling somewhat absorbed the Mercury from the primers, plus cases loaded with black were normally washed after use. There was a problem with case separation when loading smokeless until non-Mercuric primers were developed. I don't recall now the date this occurred but it was much earlier than Non-Corrosive priming as I recall. This could well have been another reason, though it was truly more primer than powder related, but the one affected the other.