October
S M T W T F S
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31
Who's Online Now
3 members (67galaxie, Jtplumb, 1 invisible), 121 guests, and 12 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums10
Topics36,194
Posts508,747
Members14,084
Most Online462
Aug 5th, 2016
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 172
CJF Offline OP
Sidelock
*
OP Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 172
Originally Posted By: 2-piper
CJF;
I may not have made myself clear. Normally a British proofed gun will have the bore size marked as per the largest plug gauges which will enter the bores. Then in 1887 they began marking the chamber size. Thus it would appear this gun per its earliest marking had a 12 chamber with an 11 bore. I think that a "True Chamberless" gun with 12 gauge chambers would have had a 10 bore.


Makes sense. Thank you sir.

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 866
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 866
CJF, The process that the gun in question went through was something that was not that uncommon with heavy wildfowling guns that were originally built for longer chambered thin brass black powder cartridges which appeared around the 1890's in Britain.As time progressed and nitro powders and longer paper cases became the norm,the process of chamber lengthening,rechambering,reboring,and re-proofing,assuming that the actions and barrels could handle the new loads,was done.It is always interesting to try and dissect the process that the gun went through from the array of proof marks.I have a W P Jones 10 bore HG with heavy 34" steel barrels and full and full choke,that went through a similar process and from the proof marks it looks to have evolved from an over bored black powder 12 bore of indeterminate chamber length,to a 3" nitro 12 and finally a 3 1/2" magnum 10.The gun weighs an even 10 lbs. and because of the heavy steel barrels it balances almost 3" ahead of the hinge pin.As mentioned earlier,if only these guns could talk...
A couple pics of the proofmarks




Last edited by Terry Lubzinski; 06/10/17 01:08 AM.

Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought stupid,than open it and confirm.
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,918
Likes: 12
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,918
Likes: 12
Educational and very interesting.

Documentation that alterations to make a gun more suitable to modern times is not only a normal 'process' but acceptable and indeed traditional.


"The price of good shotgunnery is constant practice" - Fred Kimble
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 231
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 231
Interesting to note that both guns have Birmingham date marks. CJF's gun appears to have been reproofed in Birmingham in 1961 (M & B in the crossed swords) and Terry's in 1962 (N & B). Neither gun has the Birmingham reproof mark.


Regards - Ian Forrester
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 172
CJF Offline OP
Sidelock
*
OP Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 172
I stopped back by the shop today and picked up the Ford and a 2 1/2" chambered 12 bore Webley Scott. I will take additional pictures when back from a quick trip. Regards. CJF

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 172
CJF Offline OP
Sidelock
*
OP Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 172
So here are some additional pictures of the 1892 William Ford, along with a new Ford from the 1920s and G3 Greener. All are currently 10ga. Both Fords started as chamberless guns and the older was reproved, going from a 12 to 10ga.

The 1892 Ford this thread is about, showing the side safety


Both Fords


Barrel address on 1892 Ford


Bushed firing pins and hidden 3rd fasterner on 1892 Ford (new Ford has dolls head extension)


1892 Ford flanked by new Ford (bottom) and G3 Greener (top)




Muzzles (Greener at left, 1892 in middle, 1920s Ford at right)


Proofs from both Fords, with 1892 at top


Fences (1892 at right)


Ford tangs (very similar styling although roughly 30 years apart)

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 172
CJF Offline OP
Sidelock
*
OP Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 172
And this one shows the top tang of the 1892 Ford. Look how much it curves to the right. For me, being right handed and left eye dominant, I find this fit helps my right eye overcome and drive the sighting. Westley Richards recently featured a pair of sidelocks made for central vision that have swept tangs: https://www.theexplora.com/pair-of-westley-richards-12g-central-vision-sidelock-ejectors/

I had wondered if this bend in the tang is why a side safety was used and not the traditional top tang. But the WR sidelocks referenced above have top tang safeties. Ford and Greener had worked together, so perhaps the side safety is simply Greener's influence.



Last edited by CJF; 06/30/17 07:47 AM.
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 172
CJF Offline OP
Sidelock
*
OP Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 172
The gun has a feature I don't recall seeing before. The action tapers as it reaches the buttstock. Not much, just a tenth of an inch. from 2.07" inches at the widest, down to 1.97" where it joins the butt. The barrels on this Ford, which started as a chamberless 12ga, are 2.54" across at the breach-face. The Greener, which is also a 10ga, is smaller at 2.51". The later Ford (chamberless 10ga) is 2.61".



The one thing I don't like about the gun is the hinged front trigger that must have been added later, as its workmanship doesn't match the balance of the gun.

Last edited by CJF; 06/30/17 07:39 AM.
Page 2 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard

doublegunshop.com home | Welcome | Sponsors & Advertisers | DoubleGun Rack | Doublegun Book Rack

Order or request info | Other Useful Information

Updated every minute of everyday!


Copyright (c) 1993 - 2021 doublegunshop.com. All rights reserved. doublegunshop.com - Bloomfield, NY 14469. USA These materials are provided by doublegunshop.com as a service to its customers and may be used for informational purposes only. doublegunshop.com assumes no responsibility for errors or omissions in these materials. THESE MATERIALS ARE PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANT-ABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR NON-INFRINGEMENT. doublegunshop.com further does not warrant the accuracy or completeness of the information, text, graphics, links or other items contained within these materials. doublegunshop.com shall not be liable for any special, indirect, incidental, or consequential damages, including without limitation, lost revenues or lost profits, which may result from the use of these materials. doublegunshop.com may make changes to these materials, or to the products described therein, at any time without notice. doublegunshop.com makes no commitment to update the information contained herein. This is a public un-moderated forum participate at your own risk.

Note: The posting of Copyrighted material on this forum is prohibited without prior written consent of the Copyright holder. For specifics on Copyright Law and restrictions refer to: http://www.copyright.gov/laws/ - doublegunshop.com will not monitor nor will they be held liable for copyright violations presented on the BBS which is an open and un-moderated public forum.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.0.33-0+deb9u11+hw1 Page Time: 0.040s Queries: 31 (0.013s) Memory: 0.8440 MB (Peak: 1.8992 MB) Data Comp: Off Server Time: 2021-10-15 23:32:50 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS