doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com CSMC changing

I'll tell you both. The low road is just replying "hey a$$h0le, f*ck you for saying that", instead of doing it in the roundabout way I did. Half of what I post here shouldn't be taken too seriously. Ted Schefelbein and I have had our moments here as well without too much damage being done.

LeFusil drew first blood with his snide little comment. He poked me in the eye, and I kicked him in the nuts. No big deal. I think LeFusil is probably a great guy, especially considering he doesn't mind running into burning buildings for a living.

But I think he perceived my previous posts about CSMC as either promoting them or self-serving on my part, and he got his hackles up enough to fire one over my bow. No big deal afaic. Hell, some of my best friends are a$$h0les.

Are we done here with this now? Everybody good?

Just remember, man who stand on commode, high on pot.
JR

John, I had no idea how you would respond. I seriously did find your post funny and wondered if you'd just got so pissed off, you didn't notice. But I loved your reply to mine. It describes an attitude that is perfectly in keeping with me and my friends as well as my preference for an "in the lodge, after the hunt" conversational style that is my preference for a board like this.

Not that you care but you've gone up a couple notches in my estimation and I'm sure La Fusil can look after himself. As you mentioned, he doesn't piss around in real life.

IMHO, It's fashion. I have no idea what's the hot thing that comes next but the current demand for black gun styles is simply the fashion of our times.

I also think that classic doubles, pumps and bolt actions will always represent some corner of the market and that too will change as the "fashion" for classic styles ebbs and floes.

If Tony and Lou think it's time to get out of making doubles, I sure wouldn't argue with them. And having had a front row seat for 30 years watching the US shoe manufacturing industry move elsewhere, I too would be watching the Turkish development with careful interest, were I them.

I don't think the earlier years of Spanish production is all that instructive for what may come. Industry, and this includes gunmaking, has become much more sophisticated about moving to lower production cost regions and becoming adept at quality production, although it's typically 10- 15 years for the native industry to get the quality up to world class standards. There is always a learning curve. Turkey seems well on it's way.

Recently a few well known Spanish makers have closed their doors along with the Italian maker FAMARS and now CSMC pulling out. Just the market for double guns weeding itself out? Who is the biggest market for these guns? Live pigeon shooters? Hunters? Trap or skeet shooters?

Absolutely. You could see it coming several years ago. Where it ends is anybody's guess, but the old market force of supply and demand is having its effect right now.

As far as market segmenting, I would have to think game guns are still the biggest part of the sxs market, with a small piece being the new-found Sporting Clays events for the sxs, and a very tiny piece being live pigeon shooters, most of whom now shoot o/u's. Skeet or Trap, practically nothing.
JR

I was completely surprised that FAMARS a high end Italian maker closed as they seemed to be one of the darlings of the ultra users of double guns and the demographic that can most afford high end doubles, live pigeon shooters.

I mean if you are throwing around big money on one shot the least of your problems is the price of your shotgun. Isn't this the overseas arena where the mega priced English and Italian doubleguns rule?

FAMARS, Fabbri, Perazzi, P&V, Beretta's Premium guns, Bertuzzi, Bosis, and 2 or 3 others I've probably left out were all fighting for the same customer, and I think FAMARS just got elbowed out. If I'm not wrong, I think there were some quality issues about A&S guns of late that may have influenced their demise as well.
JR

It is very likely that all of those just above and any other similar, as John says, build so few SxS that they could walk away from it and never miss it. I cannot imagine how small a fraction of 1% SxS's must be in the competition gun market. And even the Limeys shoot mostly O/U's I suppose since most of the holy SxS game guns are likely in the US.

IIRC Bertuzzi is now gone as well

I wouldn't be surprised if CSMC's quality control has come around to bite them in the a$$. I know a bunch of people that would never buy a CSMC gun because of their quality control and customer service. I was having that conversation a couple days ago with some very knowledgeable folks in the SxS industry. The double gun world is too small to get a poor reputation, and CSMC has pissed way too many people off. I'd love to order another one of their guns, but after the first debacle, Ill take my money somewhere else.

Already a small customer base that just got one customer smaller in a market that can least afford to lose any of its customers.

Where would you head to the Spanish, French, Italian or English makers?