doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com New Haven Arms sxs ...*head scratch*

Gents,

A contractor doing some work on our house brought me a double he acquired a few years ago. In referencing my books there's no way it was actually made by the original (pre-Winchester) company of that name.

In searching the forum I found this old thread...http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=277522

But nothing certain came from that, so I wonder if there are any updated insights. I noticed right off the bat that the frame does indeed look like an SAC gun, but as TopGun pointed out on the other thread, the lug is narrower on this one. I was also aware of the Baker C grade guns, but have never seen one, and this gun doesn't say Baker (or Fulsom, for that matter) anywhere.

It has no proof marks, nor any ID of the barrel type (I would guess Twist, but there's some variances in there that look different).

Lastly, just as the OP in the other thread noted, it appears to be etched rather than engraved. I say this primarily because of how shallow the cuts are.

OK, so all that said, does anyone know who made this gun?

Many thx for input. Pics below.

- Nudge

I say Baker C / New Era. I've also seen the same frame/ engraving stamped Montgomery Wards, Chicago-- made by Baker IIRC.

But wouldn't that mean theyd have had to acquired the New Haven name? Is that known?

Also, to whom (and for what) was the Aug 12, 1884 patent granted to? W.H. Baker?

- Nudge

Looks like a Syracuse to me. But, perhaps not, the pin pattern is different. I can't remember but I believe at least one other company's actions had the same triangular shape on the top side of the action. I'll bet the tubes have H.R.F. stamped on'em..

It very well may have been Baker, which also would explain the tubes, as Baker did source tubes from Heuse Riga-Fils.

After a little thought, I concur, Baker. I haven't had a chance to handle one of their boxlocks yet.

Regards
Ken

Ken61,

I own SAC's, and while you are right about the swept back frame that looks almost exactly alike, i can tell you that the cocking mechism is nothing alike. From even just a visual, the barrel lug is not nearly aa broad as an SAC.

Lastly, for that to be the case, the patent would have to be assigned to Frank Hollenbeck, given the date. And there are no Hollenbeck patents from 1884.

- Nudge

Yeah, it's a Baker. I was busy changing my post while you responded.

Baker did make "Trade Name" guns for others to sell. Some Batavia Leaders were marked "New Era" as well. Haven't been able to nail that one down yet, it may have been "The Field" in Chicago.

Those hybrid tubes are pretty sweet, with crolle irons worked into the twist pattern.



Here's another "New Haven" thread.

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=277660

Regards
Ken

The pain of it is, in researching Google's patents info, I can't seem to find any Aug. 12, 1884 patents which would fit the bill.

I looked under Baker Gun, Syracuse Forging, W.H. Baker...cannot find an Aug. 12, 1884 patent reference.

Head scratcher...

- Nudge

Looks like a Baker C grade. I had one just like it that was made for Montgomery Wards. Baker made a fair number of guns for MW. I have two 12 32" side lock waterfowl guns they made for MW. Over eight pounds and choked .055 each barrel. Can't shoot them with plastic wads they are just too tight. Nice for fifty yard clay targets. With felt wads they work well.

KY Jon,

You could well be right. I think was has me most perplexed is that it says New Haven Arms Co. If it had some silly made up trade name it would make perfect sense. But New Haven Arms was a real company which changed its name to Winchester, so you have to think the name was still owned by either Winchester, or an investor, or SOMEBODY.

American Motors hasnt existed for decades, but i can guarantee you if you introduced a car by that name, SOMEBODY would arrive in court with paperwork to sue you.

So the question is...did Baker, for use as part of their New Era production, acquire the naming rights in order to use it as a trade name...?

Anybody, thoughts or evidence on that?

- Nudge

I'd bet this gun was made well after NHA became Winchester. Someone else had the name by then.

It may be the later "Baker Standard" action rather than the Grade C. It appears specific patent info is lacking.

Regards
Ken