doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Francotte question

What is your serial number. The number can be searched in the G&H system.

I have recently seen examples of No. 2 and what are called 14E's on websites that have plain sidepanels. I don't think that necessarily means a restock.

I have a fine cased Francotte 14E 20 gauge with 28 inch barrels made in 1954 that is original with no checkered side panels. Bobby

eightbore: 70099, but...by my reading there is a $50 charge for that service these days. Well worth it if someone was really curious, but mine is sated for the moment. From looking at lots of guns from this period, I'm guessing that this stock is original to the gun and that this particular unit just didn't get the panels checkered when it was completed. I've been idly looking for a nice petite little 20 for some time and when this one came up I seized the moment, so to speak. It's not exactly what I was looking for but it will suffice for now. From recent experience, 20-gauge is far-easier to locate (than say.... 28) in the more rural sections of country where I usually find myself.

From what I'm reading here, it's easy to get the impression that anyone with more than jingly money could walk into VL&D and order whatever he pleased from Francotte.

My 1899 12ga 14E has checkered cheeks, full engraving but not deeply chiselled fences. The delicate specifications suggest to me the owner must have had in mind a 28-inch barrel custom grouse gun. It feels like a sub-gauge.

Engraved on the rib is "Made for C.W. Billings." He was captain of the victorious 1912 US Olympic trap shooting team, "the man through whose efforts the team was made up", according to an old Sporting Life report that Drew sent to me.

70099 is in the Griffin and Howe database. Send an email to Bob Beach and see what he says. He is a very nice guy.

Lloyd,

Francotte 70099 was received at Von Lengerke & Detmold in NYC on December 22, 1909. The model is recorded as a Grade "AA". That model was a featherweight game gun - please see my list of Francotte models at

Francotte Models

The post is the eighth one down the page.

1909 was a time of model transition at VL&D. It is understandable that photos of your gun show features that other Francotte owners may question. In earlier years the model "AA" would have had scalloped & checkered sidelock-shaped side panels, intercepting sears and triangular shaped engraving on the barrels at the breech. Also, this model in earlier years would not have had the dimpled pins in the receiver. Here is a photo of a similar Francotte model made in 1901 (actually it is a model "A" which was the same gun but in a heavier configuration).



In 1910, VL&D renamed most of the Francotte models and the models "A" and "AA" became the grade "No.17.5" which meant that, like the "A" and "AA" before it, it sold for $175. This model was dropped by VL&D after WWI.

Your gun was sold in 1910.

If you have any further questions, you might contact me through Griffin & Howe.

Griffin & Howe

Mr. Beach: Very gracious of you to provide all that information, thank you kindly! I'd seen the reference to the 17 1/2 Model in your table but I wasn't equipped to even speculate about it. This gun is, indeed, a featherweight game gun and it handles accordingly. It has been idled out here in the dry and dusty West for over a decade (& I've had my eye on it for at least that long). It now has a date with the deciduous forests of Minnesota & Pennsylvania next Fall.

Beaut of a gun, Lloyd. Nice catch. Gil

Thanks Gil. Not what I'm normally drawn-to, but every time I picked it up I was impressed with the obvious quality and the handling. Always fun to learn something new.