doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Hunter Arms NON L.C. Smith info?

There are Notable exceptions to this "Rule". L C Smith standardized on the 2 3/4" length at a very early date. At some point so did Lefever Arms Co. In their 1913 catalog is stated all 12 ga guns will be shipped with 2 3/4" chambers unless otherwise ordered.
All of my Large Cocking Hook 12 ga Lefevers have 2 3/4" chambers, I seriously doubt they have all been re-chambered.
Neither of these makers in this era marked their chamber length.

What Miller said

1906 2 5/8"



Buck Hamlin's 1923 Specialty 2 7/8"



The earliest known 'football' stamp is on a 10g No. 1 SN 212477 (June 27, 1910)

Gentlemen, I stand corrected. The OP was asking about a 16ga, and I should have limited my "general" rule to gauges smaller than 12. LC Smith certainly didn't standardize on 2 3/4" for the 20ga before the 1920's, and not for the 16ga until the late 30's. Any examples of those factory stamped with short chamber lengths?

Larry we have some members in the L.C. Smith organization that do have chamber lengths stamped into the barrels water table from the factory that were not common. As Brother Drew posted one 12 ga. that has 2 5/8" chambers. I know of one member that has an early pre-1913 16 gauge with 3" chambers stamped as so.

L.C. Smiths 10 gauges, 2 7/8" chambers, 12 gauge from the beginning, 2 3/4" and with the coming of the Longrange and Waterfowl guns, 3" chambers, but not all, 16 gauge, 2 9/16", 20 gauge 2 1/2" 28 gauge (1) 2 1/2", .410 beginning 2 1/2".
I don't know exactly when the .410 changed to 3", but the 20 gauge was in the early to mid thirties, 16 gauge was late 30's early 1940.

Any thing different than these dimensions were stamped on the barrels water table.

When both the 20 gauge and 16 gauge were first lengthened, the factory stamped Chambered 2 3/4" in a straight line on the water table. After a period of time I believe they left it off.

My thanks to everyone, I'm learning a lot. I tried the index card measurement. It doesn't stop. I tried feeling for a lip at the forward edge of the chamber with a thin sliver of wood and felt nothing. On visual inspection, it looks like there should be a lip there, I see a ring that looks different from the rest of the bright bore and chambers, but this area feels no different than the rest of the chamber.

Brokennock: get one of the stainless steel 6" pocket rulers that are available at most any hardware store. Remove the barrels from the gun and point them toward a good light while sliding the ruler along the chamber wall and observing when the end reaches the ring that you can see. That should give you the chamber length. Anther way is to use a set of old fashioned spring leg inside calipers. Adjust the calipers until you can just feel them slide along the inside of the chamber. When the tips reach the beginning of the forcing cone, you wil feel the abrupt change of angle and can make a pencil mark on the caliper leg to measure from the tip. Sometimes you can make more accurate measurements with the above two methods than you can with plug gauges. The accuracy of a plug gauge depends on its being made exactly to spec, and the chamber being bored exactly to spec, but if the chamber is undersize only 0.001", because of the taper, the plug gauge will read 1/4" short.

Great advice there from Tom. The 6" scale has been my go to method for some time now. As a machinist with a home lathe I turned me a set of chamber gauges. I made them to minimum chamber dia according to SAAMI specs. Very quickly I found that most "Old" chambers were not cut to current SAAMI specs. 001" - 002" undersize makes absolutely no difference in the performance on a shotgun chamber, but it sure messes up the reading on a chamber gage.

Another "home-made" trick- get two fired empty cases- RST paper are my choice, as paper hulls were the rule back when you Smith was built- Get one as 2&1/2", and one as 2&3/4"-- chamber them, but at one at a time, close the gun just as if you were going to shoot it, but then open the breech- see which of the two hulls the extractor or ejector clears easiest-- and remember, a modern 2&3/4" shotgun shells measures 2&3/4" after it has been fired.

My shooting pal is returning my copy of the Bible for L.C. Smith collectors, the Houchins' book- But my gals are getting me the new Smith tome on production and serial numbers, written by the "Numero Uno" L.C. Smithian extant, at least as far as research and accurate data are concerned. I shall devour it and memorize all salient details therein--