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Oldfarmer #466635 12/23/16 11:42 PM
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Posts: 265
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Thanks Lagopus. That is why I inquired WildCattle on how he got the provenance on his gun as the records must be somewhere. He has not chimeed back in. As you can see, it's been well cared for and is a great companion in the field.

kcordell #466638 12/24/16 01:43 AM
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The Prince of Wales' feathers are there because Dougall had a warrant for the PoW. And NOT because the gun was made for him.
My gun has the same crest on it.
There are no records available. I know about the original owner of my gun because it is written on the rib!
"Made expressly for Charles L. Hunt St Louis"
I am afraid that's all anyone can give you.
Your gun is in a much better shape than mine when I found it. Enjoy it!
Best regards,
WC-

Oldfarmer #468738 01/11/17 03:09 PM
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Posts: 285
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Just like London busses - you wait years for interesting guns to come along and then two turn up in a space of a few weeks. Rather than start a new thread it seems appropriate to add this one to the Dougall topic as it bears some similarities. There is probably 140 or 150 years between them but just have a look at the photo. You may need to double click the image to get it to a good size as I am now using a different programme from photobucket as it is almost impossible to get it to work.

Well yes it is an O/U and it doesn't drop open but it does slide forward and it does have the bosses on the breach faces like the Dougall. I apologise for the quality of the photo but I only had a few moments and the phone to hand.
I am told by the owner - who has had it 20 years and it certainly wasn't new when he bought it, that it was made as a prototype by a man called Cavener of Cheltenham (UK)It is a double trigger, non ejector. He believes it is a one off. The top lever is pushed down to lift the locking gate then the barrels will slide forward to load/unload the gun. He says that it isn't the slickest of mechanisms!! The triggers are interesting as well - you have to pull the back one before you can pull the front one. The gun will fire if you pull the front trigger exceptionally hard - so he isn't sure if the back trigger unlocks the front or it is rubbish engineering. Once the back trigger has been fired the front one works very smoothly. The firing pins are also interesting - they are spring loaded but to leave them protruding rather than being retracted. As the barrels are pulled back they are pushed in by the cartridges so they are sitting on the cap under a little pressure. Again a novel idea but apparently it has never misfired. A fascinating piece of engineering but one it is easy to see why it didn't get beyond the prototype!
John

Oldfarmer #468825 01/12/17 12:51 AM
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I think it is a Kavanagh. I can't remember where I saw a study on them. I think in the DGJ.
IIRC the Fenian model or something to that effect.
I would certainly not put it in the same class as the Dougall.
Best regards,

WC-

Oldfarmer #468835 01/12/17 05:54 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
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I too think that is a Kavanagh Finian. He was an eccentric inventor and the Fenian is said to have been the last shotgun to have been made in Ireland. This is what IGC have on them:

Name P V Kavanagh & Sons
City/Town Dublin
Country Ireland
Trade Gunmaker
Dates 1850?-1965?

Notes

It appears there was a firm known as P V Kavanagh & Sons in Dublin, Ireland. Its relationship, if any, to William Kavanagh is unknown. P V Kavanagh & Son appear to have designed a vertical barrelled (O/U) gun which they had made for them in Birmingham. The gun had a slide-forward breech opened by a push-down top lever which lifted a vertical locking bolt behind the breech face. As the breech opened, assisted by the mainsprings, fired cartridges were ejected with the assistance of a spring operated bar in the action bar. On closing the gun the locks were cocked, and the barrels slotted onto adjustable projections in the breech face the projection making the headspace adjustable (the only part of the gun to be patented). The barrels were fitted to a monoblock at the breech end, while variable chokes were screwed in at the other, full length side ribs were not fitted, a ventilated top rib was optional. The fore-end was fixed. The gun was produced over a period of about 10 years around 1950, it appeared in slightly differing forms but was never perfected. It is thought one or two were made by the a company specially set-up for the purpose, the Fenian Gun Co. Guns bearing this name and that of P V Kavanagh have been seen.

Tim

Oldfarmer #468838 01/12/17 07:59 AM
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It certainly sounds like the same gun by the description of the action. I was only going by what the owner told me - he said it was spelt with a 'C' which I thought a little odd at the time - but then it was a strange gun!!! and he was quite insistent that its origins were in Cheltenham - perhaps the Irish lads were over for the races and left it behind!
I agree - it certainly isn't in the same league as the Dougall but it was because of the couple of design feature perhaps they had seen one and maybe a Darn as well.
I would have described as 'Agricultural!. For all that an interesting relic and apparently still shoots very well.
John

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