doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Classic & Custom Single Barreled Sporting Rifles @ doublegunshop.com A pressure problem or something else?

After close to 30 years of entering the Maine moose lottery I finally drew a tag this year and that gave me an excuse to make the .35 Whelen I've wanted. I sent a good condition Remington M30 in 30.06 out to JES reboring and in less than two weeks he rebored and rechambered to .35 Whelen.

I did a break in procedure of shoot and clean for the first 10 shots and then 5 and clean twice using factory Remington 200g ammo. I then went to factory Remington 250g ammo and got excellent results (all at 100 yds).





I was ready to go but thought I would try a few shots with some factory Federal ammo that used 225 Trophy Bondeds. I touched off the first round, I got slammed, smoke from the breech, had to use a small brass hammer to get the bolt open, primer gone and the case head was a mess.











After that I went back to using the Remingtons and all was fine still shooting small tight groups.

When I got home I inspected the 20 fired Remington 250 cases and they looked good, measured within specs,

Neck diameter...unfired .380, fired .388

Behind shoulder .433 vs .442

Just above rim cut .463 vs .464

Rim .465 vs.465

OAL of case 2.484 vs 2.488

If anything, smaller than specs.......





There's a mark on all the fired cases above the rim on the fired cases, it's diameter is .468 vs .464 on the unfired cases.





Some friends suggested it was probably a bad cartridge from Federal so I called them, they asked for photos, asked for the 3 boxes of ammo I still had. They tested them and wrote back...

"Examination of the P35WT1 that we received has shown that it met all Federal Cartridge Company and industry dimensional specifications.

We then fired the ammunition to test pressure and velocity and found that your ammunition had an average pressure of 51,143 psi and an average velocity of 2578 fps. The max pressure for this round is 58,000 psi and the average velocity of this round is 2600 fps. This ammunition fell within the specifications for this round. We were unable to duplicate the issue of a blown/ backed out primer that you original had. This leads us to the conclusion that this was an isolated incident and could be the result of a comparability issue between the ammunition and the firearm. If this happens again in the future we recommend having the firearm head space checked out by a certified gun smith."


They did send 4 boxes of new ammo to replace mine as a courtesy.

So I am still wondering what this could have been. The fired Remington cases showed no signs of stretching (though 1 had a split neck) and the specs on the fired cases seem to be within limits. I have not checked the headspace and will do so but it seems that it would be OK from the fired case dimensions.

Any ideas?


At least it didn't affect my hunt, taken Tuesday, 10/11 at 5pm using the 250g Remington stuff, 742 lbs dressed, 41"....


thanks,

Rob

Congrats on the Moose!
I believe you need to have the headspace measured. I don't think there is an issue but you need to checkmark the question on the list of possibilities to put it to bed.
Hope you can keep us informed as you resolve the issue.

Nice moose!

heck dump the Federals and stick with the Rems.

That is not a case that was only suffering from excess headspace. Only extremely high pressure does that to a primer pocket and molds the case head into the extractor slot. If the rifle has excess headspace now it may well be from bolt setback from firing that cartridge.

Congrats!
Great moose, great story and I'm glad that you and the rifle survived the blown case! I can offer no opinion except to say I''d be gun=shy of the Federal (usually preferred) ammo.
Who, what and where is JES reboring?

Thank you for the input gentlemen. I am going to have to get a hold of some Go/No Go gauges to check the headpsace, I hope that one round of Federal didn't set the lugs back. Fired Remington cases after the incident measure correctly so maybe I got lucky. I certainly don't want to have to mess around with it now that it's shooting so well. And yes, I am reticent to use any of the four boxes they are sending me.

Steve, JES reboring is http://www.35caliber.com/, the Ocumpaugh brothers, Jesse and Wyatt. I did some research on reboring and they seemed to get good reviews.

I sent them the gun, they had it in their possession for 10 days before returning it, they charged $225 for the service including return shipping, and the gun shoots way better than I deserve to shoot it. They don't do email but do return phone calls. I have nothing but praise for them.

They sent the gun directly to our own bpgunsmith, Brian Perazone who drilled and tapped for the one piece Buehler mount.

I didn't realize the Buehler would be so long. I was planning on a modern Zeiss fixed 4X but it was 1/4" too short between the bells. I have about 25 scopes and only one fit, an old steel bodied Weaver 3x9. It was picky about eye relief and I surely needed a brighter scope at 5:30pm in the North Maine Woods. Luckily the shot was under 100yds, 3X was fine and I had plenty of time to take the shot. But I'm going to find a modern scope with 6" of straight tube to mount, maybe a Leupold 3X or a Burris Fullfield.

Scope problems aside I wanted to take the moose with a classic weapon and while the M30 isn't as pretty as the 1903's we see around here I sort of like them, especially the safety. My back up gun was Sav. 99 in .358 so I was committed...

Great sets of pictures, and thanks for the write up. It looks like JES does a top job at a modest price. I would proceed cautiously, but with all the measuring that you have done and might keep doing, I'd skip the gauges and use the Feds, since they're coming anyway. It looks like the action did a good job of handling the odds and ends that came back, glad all is well.

I don't have a theory about your pressure problems, but I do have a similar experience. Nearly twenty years ago, a good friend built a 35 Whelen on a Mauser action. The rifle gave good performance with handloads, but Mike was not a reloader. When he tried Federal Premium ammo, he got the same results you did. Unfortunately, he didn't follow through with Federal to determine what the problem was with their ammo. I can't imagine why Remington ammo would be OK and Federal not unless something is seriously wrong with the latter.

I agree with WJL, excessive pressure was the culprit. The question is "what caused the excess pressure"? Excess headspace does not do that. It could be a double load in one cartridge( or excess load less than double), which may not have occurred in the other cartridges. I believe you will never know, for sure, what caused it. If it were mine, I would just either shoot Rem. or my handloads using Rem. brass.
Mike

That's the plan Mike, I'll shoot the Remington I have left and then develop my own load.


thanks,

Rob