doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com 88 Sporter Variation w/ rare scope mt - need help

Hello Der Ami,

Thanks for the reply.

As a matter of fact, the complete scope mounting apparatus "is" claw mounted on the left side, with a single "hook claw" at the front, and a single "notched claw" at the rear. The pictures illustrate its removal by pushing "up" on the spring loaded button at the rear.




In addition, the scope is clamped in place with a clam-shell arrangement that is held closed with a thumb screw.

Loosening the thumb screw, and swinging it to the side, allows the top of the clamp to pivot open, releasing the scope.





When the scope is replaced and the clam shell pivoted closed, there is a small "V-notch" in the top clamp, that aligns with a "point" on the scope ring. This assures that the scope is oriented properly with the cross-hairs in the correct position.




This arrangement works very well. I removed and replaced the scope several time while shooting, and it always returned to zero.

I have also determined that the "swing-to-the-side" feature of the scope mount is only for loading the rifle with the 5-round clip, not for aiming and shooting with the iron sights. There is a "tunnel" beneath the mount that allows the iron sights to be used with the scope in place.

The scope is only 2x power and I'm not sure how to use the cross-hairs. The little circle is about 6 minute of angle, covering a 6" circle at 100 yards, and is positioned about 6" above the center of the cross-hairs. Perhaps you aim with the small circle at 100 yards (100 meters) and aim with the cross-hairs at 200 yards. (200 meters) Using my balliostic calculator, it shows a 220 g bullet at 1900fps would strike 5.9" high at 100 meters, and be dead on at 200 meters.

Don't recall ever seeing a more interesting scope mount and reticle combination. Both are a first for me. If the mount is "factory" would like to know who came up with the design. I want to assume the reticle is special order only because I've never seen one like it. A special offering from Voitl�nder? Like the ballistics calculator work.

Thanks for posting.

Mark

Hello Der Ami,

Thank you for your reply.

Kuduae did "chime in" on another site giving very detailed information about my rifle and the scope.

.



Hello Buchsemann,

Thanks for the reply.

As just discovered today, both the scope and the scope mount have serial numbers matching the rifle, likely indicating that this is how it left the factory.

buckstix,
Since you have now posted photos, I can clearly see the "claw mount" arrangement. I agree with Mark that this is a very interesting mount, and that the reticle was likely some special order item from Voitlaender. At the time many makers would honor special requests. I would be interested in what Kuduae had to say. I am guessing he addressed it on "Nitro Express" and I'm not a member.
Mike

Hello Der Ami,

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, he did answer there. With all due respect, I cannot quote his reply here. (without his permission)

Perhaps he will also see this listing and chime in.

The verbiage from NE - Axel E. on a H�nel 88, just in case you can't read the image:
"First to the markings: The circled "little rooster" (="Haehnel" in German dialect), surrounded by CGH, was the trademark of the C.G.Haenel company, Bahnhofstr. 16, Suhl. Haenel made many M88 military carbines and rifles , not only for the German army, but for export also. They used their actions to build most of the M88 sporters too. So these Haenel sporters are not converted surplus military rifles, just as the Remington 30 rifles are not ex-military P14 or M17 Enfields.
156.14 (.,/ interchangeable) is a gauge number like we still use on shotguns, lead balls to a British pound. As these numbers were taken over from Britain, 156.14 stands for a bore/land (not groove /bullet!) diameter between .310" and .320" (141.95).My own Haenel M1900 in 8x57I is marked 118.35 = .300" - .310". These gauge numbers were used by the Suhl proofhouse from 1893 to 1912, replaced by mm figures in increments of .1 mm.
The CROWN + crown/N proofmarks stand for Nitro proof using the special "4000 atm proof powder". This proof was used from 1894 to about 1923.
The rifle was proofed for the M88 8x57I sevice load of 2.75 g = 42.4gr GewehrBlaettchenpulver = (military-)rifle flake powder behind the 227 gr Stahlmantelgeschoss = steel jacket bullet.
"Star" was a high quality barrel steel by the Boehler steel works, Austria.
The other small letters are worker's stamps, factory internal quality control marks, unidentifyable today.
The scope is a very early Voigtlaender, Brunswick, "Skopar", one of the very first rifle scopes, offered from 1895 to aout 1905.
These early sing mounts were overly complicated and not recoil and wear resistant. By 1910 they had disappeared from the market again.
The rifle was retailed by Jacob Sackreuter, Friedenstr.3, Frankfurt on Main, founded 1830, last mentioned at the time of WW1. My own 8x57I Haenel M1900 was retailed by Sackreuter also. It is mounted with a Voigtlaender "Skopar D", a long eye relief version."

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Hello ellenbr,

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, as typical, the expert reply by Axel E. was most informative and helpfull.

I'm hoping to find some heavy .318 bullets in the 220g range so that I can duplicate the original loading for this rifle.

I also need to find an original "clip" so I can go hunting with the rifle as a repeater, instead of a single-shot.

Buckstix,
Axel made a typo. The 118,35 mark is often found on 9mm and 9.3mm rifles( plug gauge is 8.64mm).His is likely marked 172,68 (7.62mm). I say typo because I know for a fact that he knows the difference. If you can find heavy .323" bullets( lead core, not solid), you can size them to .318", or what ever diameter will easily fit into a fired case ( many will accept .320", some .323").
Mike

Hello Der Ami,

Thanks for your reply.

I'm goint to look into buying a Corbin die for resizing bullets down.

Buckstix,
Corbin makes very good dies, but are very expensive. If you don't have a lathe, you can have someone make a simple die that will screw into your press(7/8"-14 tpi). Corbin may have a "ring" sizing die, that is a die body that uses interchangeable
rings of different IDs. Jacketed bullets shouldn't be sized more than .005"( note .323" to .318",meets this "rule of thumb"). With type die, to change diameters, it is only necessary to make a simple ring with an OD to fit the die, and with an ID of the desired bullet diameter. This can be made, relieved at the corner, and highly polished, by anyone with a lathe.
Mike