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Makes me wonder about Tungsten as Denmark have banned that as a health risk.

Norway had the right idea as they reversed the ban and went back to lead on the grounds that the alternatives caused unacceptable wounding. Another win for common sense. Lagopus.....

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Interesting, lagopus. We're already down the nontox road on waterfowl. But the potential "unacceptable wounding" thing . . . that's why I've always promoted a blind test, lead vs steel, on pheasants. That's never been done.

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The trouble with tungsten as a raw material is, the brokers say, "This is the price, take it or leave it and don't worry about us we'll sell it."

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I think a Tungsten shortage came about because of Military requirements for armour piercing rounds taking precedent. The price went up quite steeply during the Iraq war.

I'll be visiting the beautiful country of Norway again next year so I'll ask around in any gun shops I come across to find out a bit more. I do call in the fishing shop in Bergen and the owner speaks perfect English. If I call in I take him some English fishing magazines. He does a bit of shooting too so will be sure to know more. Lagopus.....

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Originally Posted By: L. Brown
Interesting, lagopus. We're already down the nontox road on waterfowl. But the potential "unacceptable wounding" thing . . . that's why I've always promoted a blind test, lead vs steel, on pheasants. That's never been done.


Let's see...

Density of Lead- 11.34 grams per cubic centimeter.

Density of Steel- 7.8 grams per cubic centimeter.

So lead is nearly 50% more dense than steel. Shouldn't take a rocket scientists or a double blind study to know which type of shot would be ballistically inferior and produce more cripples. A few centuries of experimentation and the actual more recent experience with ducks and geese after the 1991 U.S. lead shot ban for waterfowl apparently isn't enough for Larry either.

Then there's the little problem of the total unsuitability of steel shot in our vintage doubles. Plus the higher cost. Then there's that little problem with the greater potential of breaking a tooth if you bite down on a piece of steel shot.

We all know the real motivation for the anti-lead ammunition movement. At least those of us with any brains do. It is to make shooting and hunting less affordable to the masses so that it would be easier down the road to enact more anti-gun legislation. Yet we still have those gun owners who fall for that ruse and even go so far as to aid and support it.


A true sign of mental illness is any gun owner who would vote for an Anti-Gunner like Joe Biden.

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That's funny about King Brown. He chewed my ass out several years ago for using steel to hunt ducks. Sounds like he has done a 180.


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King Brown has been anti-lead ammo for quite some time. That earlier "Lead is Dead" quote was from 2006. This one supporting the use of tungsten is from 2007:

Originally Posted By: King Brown
That's probably it re tungsten. Treblig. I'm the only guy using it within 50 miles. The other doubles guys are using steel. Good duck habitat is within an hour's drive in Nova Scotia so I don't consider the cost of hunting at tungsten prices a factor in the experience. What: the price of a movie, a few in a bar?


His anti-2nd Amendment rhetoric goes back at least that far too, but he still insists he is pro gun. Go figure. I stopped making excuses for gun owners who stab us in the back some time ago.


A true sign of mental illness is any gun owner who would vote for an Anti-Gunner like Joe Biden.

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That's great news, even better that no evidence has been found to provide real reason for a possible ban. That should stop it rearing it's head again a few years down the line.
It's good news for the thousands of airgun shooters in the UK too. The non lead pellet alternatives fell way short of the mark.
Thanks for the post and link.


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"Funny" is the right word, im, because I'm sticking to "lead is dead." No 180 here, as you speculated. Lead is being phased out primarily for public health considerations. Hunters and anglers are victims of the gone-overboard ricochet. I agreed there is no "real" alternative for bullet and shot, as another member said, but don't quibble about TM efficacy.

I agreed with old colonel's post that the UK easing is "only a victory for today" because the "illiberal green and their fellow travellers will only regroup and restart the effort. They will for deluded reasons go overboard on lead where it is not a real issue and for anti-hunting and class, culture issues fight their campaign indefinitely." I said the "Tendency to "go overboard" is common.

Having said that, I support the Canadian anti-lead ban for waterfowl. It's unquestionably better for the birds. Early-days steel was an abomination, and the heavier loads and speeds to make up for steel's limitations don't work for me nor all-but-one of my doubles. They weren't made for it. I use TM and bismuth, a smidgen of the total cost of gunning.

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Originally Posted By: King Brown
....Lead is being phased out primarily for public health considerations. Hunters and anglers are victims of the gone-overboard ricochet....

....anti-lead ban for waterfowl. It's unquestionably better for the birds....

Wow, two to one. Public health and better for the birds, that's a formidable pair. Don't mind the topic about the science and lead, did hunters and anglers ever have a chance?

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