doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com The GOP makes it easier for ISIS to kill Americans

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/20...-democrats.html

Optics on this are pretty bad. The GOP doesn't want to stop people on terrorists watch lists from getting guns to kill Americans with, all just to spite Democrats. Shameful.

You probably know it, NCA but the point is not to allow terrorists on a watch list to have a gun to kill Americans with. The point is that without checks and balances or due process innocent people are regularly placed on these lists, often without their knowledge. Is it fair to deprive innocent Americans of their 2nd Amendment right to bear arms without a hearing or due process of law?...Geo

Geo, I think nca believes he has found political 'balance' to the more interesting and important news of the day. If he concentrates on the other thread, he may have more support from his Canadian friends. Perhaps a cell phone video would help?

Well according to the reporting Geo, moving the bill forward met resistance for the purpose of spiting the Democrats for their sit in. Checks and balances and due process didn't figure in to it, but as far as that goes, you also know that the rights of the individual are often balanced against the interests of the State. Just ask any US citizen of Japanese descent who lived in the 1940's.

Some learned scholars would agree that the State's interest in preventing terrorists from getting guns to kill Americans with outweighs the result that some people will be mistakenly put on the list. However as I understand the bill, Senator Collins put in a system for people designated on the list to appeal it, so there was some due process there to address that concern. Still the GOP blocked it!

Perhaps you just become unsettled when confronted with the hypocrisy of your ideology.

Suppose our central government, without due process, without a trial decided by a jury of his peers, deprives a citizen of his Second Amendment rights. How do you know the state won't next deprive him of the of his right of reasonable bail? Or his right to free speech? Or of his freedom to attend or not attend the church of his choice? Or his right not to incriminate himself?

I don't object to denying alien nationals firearms. I don't object to denying convicted terrorists or felons firearms. I object when a secret panel makes a secret ruling and deprives a citizen of any of his constitutional rights.

The left always like to define the vocabulary of the discussion. But the Republicans and I are not for selling terrorist guns, we are for preserving the Bill of Rights for citizens.

I would not presume to know what NCA's intentions here might be. You make a good point though about the importance of other news today.

Even through the filter of CNN reporting, the live news of the congressional hearing today with the testimony of the FBI chief in response to both republican and democrat questioning seems to be providing ample talking points about Mrs. Clinton to last at least through the November 8th voting. It probably will not prevent her anointment as our next President, but it should serve to shorten her coat-tails enough to prevent a legislative take over by the democrats...Geo

If there are actual terrorists on these 'lists' I couldn't care less about their rights. Round'em up and ship'em off to Gitmo.

You'd have to agree though that allowing innocent Americans to appeal their loss after the fact of a constitutional right (without due process) fails to quite live up to the equal protection and due process to which they are entitled...Geo

How about this Mike...

Suppose our law enforcement/police, without due process, without a trial decided by a jury of his peers, deprives a citizen of his life because while not brandishing a weapon, he resists arrest. How do you know the law enforcement/police won't next deprive the next guy of life because he refuses to ID himself or answer police questions?

I could go on, but you see the point. In your scenario that you seemed very alarmed about, you should recognize that the issues of due process could be worked out by the judiciary, and all that is lost is some people get denied an opportunity to by a firearm at a store.

Where my concern is that once law enforcement wrongly kills you. Its over. No Court, no amount of due process or checks and balances makes that right again. Yet you seem to be OK with that while concurrently upset some one might not get to buy a gun at a store.

I do agree with that Geo. but that kinda happens all the time. That is why we have Courts to address these grievances in the first place. There is no screening mechanism in the constitution or in the rules of congress that prevents unconstitutional stuff from getting passed. Its only after the fact and an individual is harmed by it that it goes to Court for scrutiny.

Just look at the TRAP laws that got struck down in Texas. That sh!t was unconstitutional from the start and it still got passed.

Sorry but I don't buy the line that the GOP is standing up for us gun owner's rights. This move was out of political spite and risks innocent Americans dying from it.