doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Barrel Burst- Beretta 682?

Hello fellas,

I�m looking for some practical input re: a barrel burst that injured a shooting friend of mine this past weekend. I wasn�t there for the occurrence, but had a chance to inspect these barrels today �.and admit they have me puzzled. I�ve been a DGJ subscriber since the first issue, have read all of Sherman Bell�s articles, etc., numerous times over the years, and yet my understanding of this burst is only partial and was hoping someone here might be of help.

The gun involved is a 12 ga. Beretta 682 and its owner was shooting factory Federal promo loads (Top Gun- multi-purpose shell 1-1/8 oz. - 1200 fps) like you�d buy a four-pak of in Wal-Mart. He was three stations into a round of sporting clays with no issues when they let go, injuring his left hand as pictured. At the explosion, the forearm fell off in three or four pieces, and the barrels fell away from the frame without his initiating that. He was injured enough to where he and his friends were thinking more about hospitals rather than where the empty cartridges went, so we don�t have that to work from��

What the pictures should reveal is that the bottom barrel and side ribs opened up right at five inches forward of the breech in a classic banana peel. Force was such that it slightly gaped the weld where the mono-block meets the (barrel) tube.

The top barrel was also loaded, and possibly detonated in a simultaneous discharge, as neither the shooter nor his companions can remember it going off separately. It has a serious ring-bulge some four inches forward of the breech but with no rent in the top barrel wall other than a similar gape where tube meets mono-block.

I hand-load for all my shooting, and do not have a Federal promo hull to examine, but suspect they have a separate base wad like many of the Riefenhauser type hulls do. My guess on the bottom barrel blow-out is that it may have formed an obstruction (possible loose base wad?) caused by the previous shell that was fired �..and which then really came apart with the subsequent shell. I�m open to differing opinions on this, yet it�s been my understanding that some form of obstruction is usually the culprit in blow-outs of this proportion.

I�m more puzzled by the top barrel and �why� it would have a ring bulge at all unless the deformation of the lower barrel damaged the upper barrel wall to where it, too, had a degree of restriction upon discharge. This top barrel bulge is very uniform circumferentially, yet it too is partially gaped from the monoblock as I mentioned.

Last question: Does anyone here know who could repair these to �as-new� condition?.......... just funnin� ya on that one, but much less funny for the guy behind the gun. So with that, your thoughts appreciated���

Being old and thus computer challenged, I�m only able to post the photos as a link to photobucket.com, and would much appreciate if someone here could convert them to actual photos within the thread.

Thanks,

Rob

[img]http://s257.photobucket.com/user/rsharris_turnstone/library/Beretta%20682[/img]

Robert, I'm not about to guess the cause but yes, the Federal Top Gun hulls have a fiber base wad. I have heard reports of this wad separating and lodging in barrels but have never experienced it. I reload a lot of these hulls and have never had a problem even after three or four reloadings. But then again every time I open a gun and extract a hull I peek down the bores....

Try to go back to the range and look for a empty without a base wad.

Any chance he had a 20 gauge shell in his pouch?

Rob, here are your photos. Ouch!

I tend to agree with your assessment of the possible cause of this burst. But I have never heard of a situation like this causing a detonation in the other barrel. I'd guess that the chances of finding the empties that were in the gun when this happened would be about zero after several days has passed. Too bad, because it would be nice to have more information.

"Federal Top Gun hulls have a fiber base wad. I have heard reports of this wad separating and lodging in barrels but have never experienced it."

I am curious about this statement. I hand load and use fibre base wads in all my loads. Upon exiting the barrels they do separate and I can find pieces spread out across the range, but I'm not sure what is meant by separating in the barrels and lodging enough to create an obstruction? Is that a squib load? I also wonder what type of fibre base wads Federal is using that more than one person here has first or second hand experience of separation issues?

"Any chance he had a 20 gauge shell in his pouch?"

Judging from the placement of the blowout from the breach that would have been my first question.

Tamid, the base wad does not ordinarily leave the hull upon firing. It is supposed to remain fixed in the base of the empty hull, thus the name "base wad". What is surmised that happens when a base wad causes an obstruction is that base wad is already loose, or maybe less sturdily affixed, to the inner base of the hull, and somehow the exiting payload, including the gas ejects, somehow pulls the base wad along with it for a ways until it lodges somewhere down the bore, creating a definite obstruction. What you are calling fiber base wads are really over powder wads that indeed do go down range at every shot.

Who knows how often this occurs and the base wad exits the barrel never to be noticed unless someone looked inside the empty hull? I've never loaded as many of this type hulls as I have compression formed hulls, but I've never seen a hull in this condition. I do believe it occurs, though.

SRH

From the photos, that's an interesting place for a burst to occur. Right next to the midrib. If you're measuring barrel wall thickness, that's where it's hardest to do. You wouldn't think there would be a thin spot to worry about on a new Beretta OU, but I do know of one modern Spanish sxs from a very good maker that blew due to a thin spot. My money would still be on an obstruction burst of some sort, but it would be interesting to measure wall thickness where it blew.

The Ring bulge which is visible on both barrels is certainly indicative of an obstruction. The burst in the bottom barrel though is not really a common appearance of an obstructional burst. It may well have been an obstruction, with a loose base wad being most likely, combined with a seam in the barrel which held until opened by the extra pressure from the obstruction. Thus the obstruction caused the ring & the seam then split. The split could of course have been brought on by a thin spot as Larry mentioned, but either way as the ring is present it seems likely an obstruction started it off.
I would concur the second barrel was likely due to the deformation from the first one creating a restriction. It is of course possible, though highly improbable, that both barrels had a base wad come loose at the same time & then ended up at near identical locations in the respective barrels.

'Thanks' to those that have responded so far, and especially to Keith for getting the photos to appear within the post. I can tell you that no 20 gauge shells were part of the incident that day. Having the spent hulls would have been very beneficial, yet without them little can be proved as to whether the shell(s) or gun...or both....are to blame. My bet is still on a lodged basewad starting things off in the bottom barrel, and the magnitude of that burst causing the then damaged top barrel to detonate virtually at the same time....but just speculation on my part.

Good news is that my friend only received some tissue damage to the fleshy part of his hand as you see, and a broken finger bone on the tip of the same hand where it wraps around the forearm. No involvement with his eyes, etc. which was a blessing. Again, my 'Thanks' (and his) for your all your input so far.

All Best,

Rob

Get ahold of Federal and Beretta.
Federal won't want this story and those pictures being passed around.
He'll need Beretta to tell him that it's not their fault.
They may want the barrel set.