doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Old Churchill Shotgun

I am looking for reputable appraisers of an Old Churchill Shotgun, circa 1897 in North Carolina, preferably in the Piedmont-Triad area of the state. Any advice would be welcomed. Thanks!!

I live in Saxapahaw but don't consider myselfy an expert even though I own some English guns and have had many others.
Post some pics, no better experts than these guys on this forum.

Hello Lew Williams
and
WELCOME on your first posting

Yes, pictures would be most helpful here and you will get an
impartial appraisal with great peer pressure from this site

In order to post pictures you will need a web host like
Photobucket or Hunt101

Again, welcome
Mike

Welcome, Lew. I'll run your gun through my value system (value, not price and not an appraisal) if you will post a good description or, much better, a photo. I can tell you that if the gun is of the British Churchill (there are others), it will have a Brand Value level two (BV2). Only the four BV1 names will have higher value for the name on the gun.

Post that photo!!

DDA

Thanks folks for the warm welcome! I will post some pics. The gun room manager, Chris Cloke, at Churchill said he felt confident in that it was an E. J. Churchill and that it was made in 1897. He said it was unquestionable that it was made on a WC Scott action with the screw grip top lever type.

Ok, folks. Here are the pics! Let me know what you think!

http://s1096.photobucket.com/user/Sweetlew1/slideshow/

Surprised to see this is a non-ejector Churchill. Sweet looking, and of a matched pair as well. Wonder where the No. 2 gun might be-

Looks like it has ejectors to me from the pictures. You have a very nice Best gun. An early example of a London Best.
You can tell it has been well used but the engraving looks very well maintained.
As far as value a lot depends on several factors, how are the barrels and how well do they measure? Is it technically still in proof?
The wood, any cracks? I see the checkering is well worn but that can be repaired.
One thing that sets people off about value is the lump coming through the bottom and not stocked to the fences. But when this gun was built it was truly a Best gun.
Until the questions about the stock and barrels can be answered it is hard to place a value.
But the old girl has potential and hope you are someone invests in bringing her back to her glory.

Lew, your best bet may be to contact MacNab fine firearms or Deep River Sporting Clays. Either should be able to give you an appraised value on their letterhead.
Your pictures were very good and only a picture of the barrel flats was missed. Seeing the proof marks will be vital for someone to value the gun for you.
BTW the gun was built in 1897

Lew, having just purchased abroad a "Premier" quality E. J. Churchill sidelock gun that was completed in 1898 and bears serial number 978, which auction purchase followed consideration of a number of other period examples over many months, here and abroad, I would venture to say your earlier circa 1897 gun could be market-valued at approximately $4,000-5,500. I would add, however, that the value of the ownership of such an excellent antique gun from this quality maker, as this is, is inestimable, and that you should have no doubt that yours truly is a fine 'Golden Age' production. Moreover, although some among our fraternity will disagree vehemently with any sort or level of restoration efforts being performed, I would say otherwise and state that if conscientiously and not excessively restored by a true professional or professionals, the subject E. J. Churchill gun would increase in monetary value, as would the pride of ownership factor, which is too often overlooked as a substantial value.

I have seen comparatively higher denominated numbers online but do not personally perceive them as practicable or realistic when compared to actual market prices garnered in the world of the auction where I usually reside and do business. I base the above opinion entirely on the several photographs viewed with attention to the overall condition and according to certain specific areas I always first look at, but without knowing other basic considerations, such as barrel condition foremost, about lock-up, ejector condition, etc. and the answers to a host of other questions I have initially when considering a given piece to add to my collection. The fact that your gun is an "antique firearm," or "any firearm manufactured in or before 1898" (or pre-1 January 1899), as that legal term is defined in the federal statutes governing the disposition of the firearm (i.e. modern), curio & relic firearm and antique firearm in the U.S., adds a premium to the monetary value.

It is remarked that your gun's standing breech and what can be seen of the water-table appear clean, as do the metal surfaces elsewhere. The engraving appears 'unwashed' and reasonably sharp. The wood, both fore and aft, although understandably worn, especially where often handled, is nicely grained and the grain flows in the right direction for strength and durability. The wood appears eminently restorable and the fine chequering should be re-cut, but only if this refinishing / refurbishing is done by a recognized professional (e.g. Abe Chaber, Paul Hodgins, James Flynn, etc.). We all have our personal preferences for professional quality mechanical work that needs to be done and mine is Kirk Merrington, who, for example, does all my barrel work. The idea is to restore the antique gun sensibly and sensitively and not try to achieve an 'as new' look, which actually detracts from the 'value' and expected appearance of the gun. To me, the definition of value is that perceived by the owner, or the price willingly paid by a buyer of a gun at time of purchase.

Churchill guns were and are to-day top-tier guns, and yours is no exception; in fact, it is a fine example of a high quality E. J. Churchill gun finished during the maker's early period. These early period works are highly desirable but usable collectibles and are exceedingly few in terms of surviving examples. Personally, unless you are thinking of selling this gun, I would have the gun checked by a reputable and knowledgeable gunsmith, and if sound, would acquire proper ammunition (e.g. RST, Polywad, etc.) and shoot the gun. Even though mainly a collector of antique guns only, I adhere to the adage to enjoy today what I 'have' before those things to be enjoyed ineluctably become what I 'had' to enjoy. Please enjoy your antique gun to the fullest extent, whether afield or at the gun club; there is no better enjoyment to be had for the antique gun owner.


Regards,

Edwardian