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Forums10
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Apr 27th, 2024
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 12
Boxlock
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OP
Boxlock
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 12 |
I am again impressed by the wealth of knowledge that exists on this site. Thanks to all that have helped "clear the fog" for me about this shotgun. This what I've learned so far....I think.
It is probably a Model 300 vs a 400 due to the fact that in front of the flats it is stamped in tiny letters " 2/3/4 shells" ( didn't note that before) and the proof is for 1 1/4.
It still is very light at 6# 4 oz and it's beautiful!
The action (bottom, sides, forend iron, fences, top and bottom tangs and trigger guard) are completely covered in fine scroll engraving but not the oak leaf pattern on the fences that Larry refered to for a Grade 1.
The wood is definitly as good as the Grade I at the site Larry refered me to.
I suspect it may be a Grade 2. The engraving and wood appear to be much better than the norm I've seen on the internet. I doubt very much if this is a base model gun.
It does have bushings (discs?) for the strikers. Didn't notice that before either!
I remeasured the barrel length and and found they are not 27 1/2 but rather 27 9/16. A gunsmith examined them and felt confident they have not been cut/trimmed. ????? Pehaps a gun made for the Continent??? I don't know.
I didn't attempt to carefully measure the length of the chokes. Dragging a set if internal calipers through the end of the bores revealed they are about 1/1/2 to 2 inches long with what seems to be a short parallel area at the exit.
Price wise it seems I'm getting a pretty good deal. $1600.
It looks like at long last I may have found my "English Game Gun". It may not be a Purdey but I suspect it will do just fine.
Unless someone upsets the apple cart I expect it will be mine on Monday or Tuesday.
TomR
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,749 Likes: 744
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,749 Likes: 744 |
Congrats. Sounds like a REALLY nice Webley. I much prefer them with disc set strikers. As Miller pointed out, the barrels may have been specked at 70.
Pictures, when you have the time.
Thanks.
Best,
Ted
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 629 Likes: 1
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 629 Likes: 1 |
First Mea Culpa. I attempted to write my previous babbling post from all-too-dank memory while half asleep and apparently low blood sugar. I believe my flourishes concerning Mr. Stansbury included some ramblings from a dotty old Brit friend who had contact with him & West London Ground in the distant past. I am certain that he gave great praise to his skills & did say that he was a perfect gentlemen and outstanding coach. The whole investigation of what is what with the guns reminds me of an old observation to never say "never" or "Always" when it comes to any gun made by Webley & Scott. OK. Champlin Arms has a Ca 1925 Webley/Scott high grade Mod. 400 listed on Gunsinternational
Linked Here This is one of the images contained there.  L
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,954 Likes: 12
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,954 Likes: 12 |
Tom, this gun "could have been" a BV1 name. I have James Woodward & Sons #6188, a W & S Proprietary. It is a nice, mid-grade boxlock ejector - not less, not more. The Woodward name is fun to have, but does not change the gun.
DDA
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,377 Likes: 105
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,377 Likes: 105 |
First Mea Culpa. I attempted to write my previous babbling post from all-too-dank memory while half asleep and apparently low blood sugar. I believe my flourishes concerning Mr. Stansbury included some ramblings from a dotty old Brit friend who had contact with him & West London Ground in the distant past. I am certain that he gave great praise to his skills & did say that he was a perfect gentlemen and outstanding coach. The whole investigation of what is what with the guns reminds me of an old observation to never say "never" or "Always" when it comes to any gun made by Webley & Scott. OK. Champlin Arms has a Ca 1925 Webley/Scott high grade Mod. 400 listed on Gunsinternational
Linked Here This is one of the images contained there. L Tom, that gun now resides at my house. I'm very happy with it. Disc-set strikers, 3rd fastener, Webley screw grip. Looks a bit different now. Too long for me as shown in the photo. Now wears a thinner leather-covered pad.
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,982 Likes: 106
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,982 Likes: 106 |
Larry, That's a beautiful gun. I've had several dealings with George Caswell, always very pleasant. He sure knows guns....a wealth of information/knowledge. BTW, I'm guessing that gun looks great with a leather pad. Show us a photo. Those orange pads are ok on some guns, but......
Socialism is almost the worst.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,377 Likes: 105
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,377 Likes: 105 |
I am again impressed by the wealth of knowledge that exists on this site. Thanks to all that have helped "clear the fog" for me about this shotgun. This what I've learned so far....I think.
It is probably a Model 300 vs a 400 due to the fact that in front of the flats it is stamped in tiny letters " 2/3/4 shells" ( didn't note that before) and the proof is for 1 1/4.
It still is very light at 6# 4 oz and it's beautiful!
The action (bottom, sides, forend iron, fences, top and bottom tangs and trigger guard) are completely covered in fine scroll engraving but not the oak leaf pattern on the fences that Larry refered to for a Grade 1.
The wood is definitly as good as the Grade I at the site Larry refered me to.
I suspect it may be a Grade 2. The engraving and wood appear to be much better than the norm I've seen on the internet. I doubt very much if this is a base model gun.
It does have bushings (discs?) for the strikers. Didn't notice that before either!
I remeasured the barrel length and and found they are not 27 1/2 but rather 27 9/16. A gunsmith examined them and felt confident they have not been cut/trimmed. ????? Pehaps a gun made for the Continent??? I don't know.
I didn't attempt to carefully measure the length of the chokes. Dragging a set if internal calipers through the end of the bores revealed they are about 1/1/2 to 2 inches long with what seems to be a short parallel area at the exit.
Price wise it seems I'm getting a pretty good deal. $1600.
It looks like at long last I may have found my "English Game Gun". It may not be a Purdey but I suspect it will do just fine.
Unless someone upsets the apple cart I expect it will be mine on Monday or Tuesday.
TomR
Tom, if your gun is a 300 rather than a 400, it would have a Greener crossbolt as the 3rd fastener. The Model 400, being a Webley screw grip design, uses a rib extension. The Scott book only lists one grade for the Model 300. It was replaced by the 300A in 1939, which had more engraving. But from what you said about the serial number dating it to 1922, it doesn't sound as if you have a 300A. But that Greener crossbolt vs rib extension and screw grip will clearly differentiate a 300 from a 400. Either way, it sounds as if you're getting a very good deal. That kind of money won't buy a Model 700 12ga in good condition. And especially if you have a Model 400 Grade 2, you have a much nicer gun with features that are lacking on the postwar 700 series guns--like a 3rd fastener and disc-set strikers.
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 12
Boxlock
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OP
Boxlock
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 12 |
Well, a Model 400 it is then. No Greener crossbolt, its a screw grip for sure. A vintage gun site in the UK agrees that 300's
were all made with the Greener cross bolt.
Even though it's chambered for 2 3/4 inch, 1 1/4 oz loads I suspect a prudent owner should probably stick to low pressure shotshells like RST's 2 1/2 inch, 1 oz loads. I have no experience with their 2 3/4 inch shells.
Tom
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Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 287 Likes: 7
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 287 Likes: 7 |
We all wait with anticipation for pictures of your treasure.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,377 Likes: 105
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,377 Likes: 105 |
Tom, the RST 2 3/4" shells are also relatively low pressure.
From your description and verification it's a 400 but lacks the deeply chiseled fences (and perhaps the wedges of engraving on the barrels as well?), I think you likely have a Grade 2. There might be someone else here who can confirm that. I can't, because unfortunately, the Scott book contains photos of only Grades 1 and 3. Grade 1 is essentially unengraved; Grade 3 profuse engraving of very fine small scroll, but with the features noted above. Sounds like yours falls between. Congratulations on a nice gun--at a really excellent price!
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