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Argo44 Offline OP
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277 closes Feb 1903 - 295 opens May 1904; Changes in the 1900-1907 dated SN list


This post will be of interest to maybe 5 people in the universe. However, I've been puzzled by a "hole" in Reilly's advertising record. The last advertisement for 277 Oxford Street is in "The Field" 14 Feb 1903; There is not another advertisement for Reilly anywhere until 21 May 1904, "The Field."

. . . . . . . .14 Feb 1903. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .21 May 1904
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

277 Oxford Street was visited by "The Field" in early 1903 - no hint it was closing:

Also from 14 Feb 1903 - The Editor physically was in Reilly's workshop not long before - depending on what "lately" means.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

If Reilly did anything well it was advertising, a constant barrage from the time the company began to make guns in 1828. The "hole" thus means something. The conclusion is that for some reason Bert Reilly closed 277 in Feb 03 and did not open a formal Reilly workshop again at 295 until May 04. He may have had some sort of temporary set up during this time but that would be odd.

This has now been taken into account in the extant gun dated list on p.57. The 1907 marker gun 35554 stays put, the 1897 marker gun 34723 stays. So it was just a matter of moving a few guns around, not more than 70 to make the new (presumed) facts fit...i.e. 1903 now only has 10 guns numbered in that year (2 months of work). This was during Reilly's precipitous downslide so doesn't matter so much if an extant Reilly was numbered in 1903 or 1905 but the chart is made to be as accurate as possible fitting current known or deduced facts. If something comes up showing Reilly was working during the rest of 1903-early 1904, the chart will be changed back.

Last edited by Argo44; 08/05/21 03:22 AM.

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Make that 6 people.

Keep up the good work!

Regards

AlanD

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Always more questions than answers with anything from the past ! You have amassed a lot of info on Reilly despite the passage of time .it`s sad that so little has been recorded of so many other once thriving establishments.

Last edited by Imperdix; 08/06/21 03:11 PM.
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Maybe 7, add me to the list!

Keep it up! Each morsel adds a little bit more.

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Argo44 Offline OP
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Not slacking off. Here's part of the Reilly label Photo collection compiled over 5 years. The labels can definitely now be dated.

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Last edited by Argo44; 08/06/21 05:42 PM.

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Oh, I'd hazard a guess it is a plethora of interested readers, all with baited breath.....




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For the Reilly enthusiasts, this article just came to my email from Gray's Sporting Journal. A short, enjoyable read from Terry Weiland.

Terry Weiland- Reilly Restoration


Jim
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Argo44 Offline OP
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Thanks Jim. Terry Weiland first wrote about that renovated Reilly 15 years ago. It's been a favorite of his and mentioned in his articles for years along with other Reilly's. He also wrote an article in Double Gun Journal about Reilly in 2014.

https://www.[censored].com/shotgun...ry-wieland-on-his-em-reilly-12-bore.html
https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/longgun_reviews_st_festicvaloflights_201002/99344
https://www.riflemagazine.com/combination-guns
https://www.wolfeoutdoorsports.com/handloader-277-april-2012/

However, I have never been able to get a Serial Number or address on the rib for that renovated gun from any of his articles. I've written to an email he used a few times; I believe he lives in Missouri - without success.
https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=509093

I have contacted Grays Sporting Journal and asked that they please pass a message to Terry about the History and dating chart and ask for the SN of the gun. I don't think he will reply but I would like to talk to him. He was one of the first to write about Reilly's back in the early years of this century and Reilly's clearly are one of his favorites. Gene

In one of his articles some time ago he wrote about a .577 snider cartridge double rifle (now a 20 bore shotgun). I have been able to lift a SN from the cover, 14201...by my chart that would be 1866. It sure looks like it was originally a pin-fire rifle to me modified to center-fire to adapt to the Snider cartridge which was adopted in 1866...then later to a 20 bore shotgun.

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Last edited by Argo44; 08/12/21 04:57 PM.

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==========================================================
Reilly the technological risk-taker 1850’s-1860’s


As mentioned in the history E.M. Reilly was not an innovator; He was a technically literate businessman. But he was very astute and always tried to be one step ahead of demand. As such he took technological business risks. This trait has been commented on in several articles in the mid-1800’s in “The Field.” His shop always had the latest breech-loader or new innovation that one could handle and either purchase outright or order. Below are three periods where he appeared to put significant resources into a technological gamble:

----- summer 1857 – massive investment in Pin-Fire Breech-Loaders ---------
100 Pin-Fire guns out of 300 guns numbered


E.M. commented in a letter to “The Field” in December 1857 that until circa 1857 those Englishmen purchasing a breech loader did so for the sake of “novelty.” It was only “quite recently” that demand took off. Per this advertisement in summer 1857 Reilly had 100 breech-loading pin-fires in the state of manufacture. In that year Reilly from summer 1856-summer 1857 made about 300 serial numbered guns, J.C. another 100 (he did not make breech-laders). In other words Reilly had switched/devoted 1/3 of his output during that period to pin-fire breech-loaders, this two years before Purdey even built his first. In the famous quote in "The Field" from October 1858, Reilly (alongn with Lang and Blanch) was "overdone with orders" for break-action pin-fires. His gamble paid off.

20 June 1857 "The Field":
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

10054 - oldest datable UK made pin-fire - Sep 1856 (see p.56)
10054- Reilly, 502, New Oxford Street, London. 15 bore, SxS Rifle, pin-fire, Single-bite, Lang-Lefaucheux forward U-L. 1st SN'd extant center-break gun. . (Note: Possibly the oldest extant UK-made center-break gun.)
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Third extant Reilly breech-loader SN 13344, August 1857.
10344 - Reilly, (address not mentioned). 12 bore SxS shotgun, pin-fire hammer gun with leather case.


----- summer 1858 – Significant investment in Prince-Patent, Breech-Loading Rifles ------
75 Prince rifles out of 280 numbered guns


In probably late summer - early fall 1856 Reilly adopted a new label which had two references to Breech-Loader:
-- “Fusils a Bascule” (French for center-break Breech loader)
-- “Improved Breech Loaders” – In 1855 Prince patented his Breech-Loading single barrel rifle, undoubtedly the finest of his era. At the same time Terry patented is breech loader. There was a ferment in the industry as American inventions began arriving.

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Reilly it appears in summer 1858 decided to put a lot of eggs in the Prince basket. On the dating chart there are only three extant Reilly’s from the period July-December 1858. All three are Prince patent breech-loaders, SN 10738 – 10872. Reilly devoted considerable manufacturing resources to stocking up on Prince breech loaders - From this he could have serial numbered some 100 Prince rifles of some 280 total guns made during this period.

10738- Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London; .350 cal, single-barrel, breech loader. (10438 on hammer). Frederic Prince patent.
10811- Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London. .25 bore (sic) (probably .577), single barrel breech-loader hammer gun, Frederic Prince patent. (1st use of "Oxford St." and "Reilly & Co.")
10872 - Reilly, New Oxford Street, London. .577 cal; Rifle; single barrel, breech loader, hammer gun, Frederic Prince Patent.

As speculated previously, this may also reinforce the notion that Reilly was behind the 1858 “Field” advertisement signed by 12 notable London gunmakers urging Arsenal to reopen the Army trials to match the Prince breech-loader against the recently adopted (1853) Enfield rifle-musket. Reilly it appears had some sort of arrangement with Prince and Green (who were in a partnership at the time), possibly a financial investment which kept him from signing the letter. But as speculated before, Reilly may well have provoked the whole thing as a business ploy (see analysis on p.55):

"The Field", 24 April 1858
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

------- 1867-68 – investment in Green Brothers Breech-Loading Rifles -------------
150 Green Bros rifles out of 300 guns numbered


As documented in the above line on p.24, Green-Bros patented their breech-loading rifle in January 1862. In March 1864 Reilly announced that he had manufacturiung rights to the patent and began an extensive advertising campaign for the rifle. The first Green-Bros Reilly pat use number is #23, SN 13333 (May 1864)

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

The Rifle did not win the 1864-65 interim breech-loading trials – Snider did – but the Green brothers patent rifle was extremely accurate, won a lot of shooting contests and was in demand. From about September 1867 to January 1868 it appears Reilly serial numbered almost 150 Green brothers rifles out of 300 total serial numbered guns produced…one-half of his manufacturing production.(see p.57 for more complete info). (There is a possibility that SN 14763 actually had pat use #277 rather than 177 - which would better fit the curve of Reilly made Green Bros patent use numbers - but that is what the auction house said).

14763 - E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London. .577 cal. Single barrel breech-loader rifle. Green Bros Patent - Pat use #177
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

15047 - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London. .577 Rifle. Single barrel, breech-loader rifle. Green Bros Patent - Pat use #325
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Last edited by Argo44; 08/18/21 04:32 AM.

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Wonderful stuff, Gene. The late 1850s is a difficult period to decipher.

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