doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com " United We Stand"

That's the one, Jake! You're a bit confused about the details, though. Jack has given you the straight story, including the part that the raised gun and the cold, dead fingers quote. Didn't happen at the Denver meeting.
Thank you, Jack.

One time he did it, he added "From my cold, dead hands, MR. GORE". You maybe didn't like that one either.
Maybe you also think Michael Moore's "Bowling for Columbine" was a well-intended documentary?

Jack, both as a member of PF and RGS and as a member of the outdoor press, I get emails and press releases from those two organizations going into fairly specific detail--including the text of testimony before various Congressional committees--concerning their efforts on the Hill. My status is no different with IWLA--member, and working member of the outdoor press. Maybe they're just not very efficient at getting the word out on what they do in DC--other than through their magazine, Outdoor America. And although the most recent edition of that magazine focused on a number of environmental issues, it contained nothing relative to RKBA issues.

So . . . when other organizations (with smaller memberships than IWLA) are quite effective in advising both their members and the outdoor press about their lobbying activities, it seems to me quite an assumption on your part that the IWLA is engaging in RKBA lobbying efforts in DC--and not reporting on those activities, either to their members or to the outdoor press. And you know what happens when you ASS-U-ME.

If I were counting on an organization to stand up for my RKBA rights, I'd want something a little better than an assumption to go on. But if it's good enough for you . . .

Two points for the NRA:

1. The NRA convention was here last week, and Missouri's governor was an active participant. He sure wasn't afraid to be part of the NRA and have his photo ops.

2. The NRA was the major determinent is getting a CCW law passed in Missouri a few years back. Without them, that would never have happened.

None of us agree 100% with every NRA position, but I'm sure glad they are working for us, and our gun rights.

Jerry Goldstein

Generally speaking, Jack is right on how organizations work to change things, publicly and back-channelling. It's part of my work. The antis didn't get the upper-hand in Canada with donations, five-colour ads and publicity campaigns.

As for the best way, our beliefs are founded on conscience and experience with all the usual contradictions, involving our interpretation of events around us, with varying shades of meaning, and yet they're still compatible with pragmatism.

Do democrats have a palate for more gun control legislation? I mean, don't they actually want to win this time?

Yes, Heston did refuse to buckle under to emotional media and public pressure in the wake of Columbine - and I think he did right. To fold would have been an admission of responsibility for the shootings. But as for Heston's "cold, dead hands" performance, I believe it was taken out of context, as he predicted, from another occasion unrelated to Columbine. [/quote]

Jack,
As I read your posting of the speach, I do remember it. And, no offense to your take on it, but I also remember what a dumb thing I thought it was to go forward with that convention at that time and in that place.
As for the "cold, dead hands" spectical, I swear I saw it at the same time. It was an over the top public display. Maybe not in that speach, but I thought it was at the same time.
At any rate, I just think an intellegent discussion about guns is socially responsible. The instantanious reactionary slogans and position of the NRA may do more to alienate them from the main stream than they think. And, like it or not, the main stream has the power.
If every member of the NRA found a few democratic folks to befriend and took them to the club for a few clays it would do more good than chanting the slogans and drawing lines in the sand. At least, that is what I think.
Regards, Jake

Jakearoo,

While I may not agree with your opinion that the NRA should have not gone to Denver that year, I respect your right to disagree. But, you are very mistaken about the "Cold, Dead Hands" being at that speach. I am just as sure that you may have seen it at the same time. I am sure that many TV and print media ads at that time used that quote and photo of Heston holding the musket over his head as a sort of "yellow journalism" to sway public opinion against the NRA, that simply did not happen then. Mr. Heston is an honorable man, one of first class and impeccable taste. I cannot believe for one instant that he would be so crass as to do that in the wake of what happened at Columbine.

Have you ever read the speach he gave at Harvard? Amazing. I will post it here if anyone is interested.

True Dave, but one has to follow CC laws in state you choose to carry. Some have more strict rules then others and guest will be held accountable for violating them.

Jake: I agree with Steve. It was typical of the anti-gun media to splice the "cold dead hands" bit into Heston's speech and make him look ridiculous. They do that cr@p all the time. It was a powerful combination, and it made an unforgettable impact on the public memory. So powerful that even some gun owners now imagine that it happened that way.

If there is any vestige of 'journalistic integrity' remaining in this nation, it gets switched off whenever the media address polarizing issues such as guns or climate change.

You're right, Jake, that bumper sticker chanting doesn't qualify as intelligent discussion. Every time I see fanatics in Tehran, Baghdad or Pyongyang shouting 'death to America' in unison, I wonder how otherwise intelligent human beings can abandon the gift of thinking in favor of mindless slogans.

The "cold dead hands" line rightly draws ridicule, and it was embarrassing to see a man of Mr. Heston's age and stature parroting it. But he did not say it in connection with Columbine - that was a media swindle. IMHO, his Denver NRA speech was thoughtful, respectful, and appropriate to the circumstances.

I haven't posted in some time...new job at age 78, and it takes time in travel, so I don't have much time to do computer.

I'm a life member of the NRA, and have been forever. I always take the opportunity to suggest people need to join...they are far and above the voice of us all.

J.L. Dunn
Kingwood, TX