doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Baker confusion

The Baker guns (as in "W.H.") have largely slipped under my radar in years past. But seeing one locally recently that I thought quite beautiful, has my interest is piqued. I just need a little clarification from others who know Baker's well.

The distinction between A and B grade (pre-Fulton).

I know that A grade was higher than B. But I have noted several B's which exceeded A's in terms of the amount and detail of the engraving on them.

Is this a situation similar to Lefever, where existing grades became more ornate over time as new ones were added beneath? Or is there some debate as to whether A or B were considered higher?

The A's I've seen typically had Damascus barrels, and the B's Twist. So that definitely supports the notion that A grade was priced higher.

So why then have I seen so many B's with superior engraving?

Thanks for any insights,

- Nudge

The Baker B grade engraving changed over the years. The early 1 pin side plate was etched; cut engraving started about SN 3000 c.1908

Long ago Ross Berck posted this nice comparison



Lots more images here
http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/17434920

From a 1900 issue of "The Baker Gunner" courtesy of David Noreen - "We do not guarantee that every "B" (or "A") grade gun will be engraved from just the same design, but endeavor to have about the same amount of engraving on each. On receiving an order from a customer we try to select first, one which will fill the specifications as to gauge, weight, length of barrels, drop and length of stock, and then conform to customer's ideas as to engraving , as nearly as possible from guns we may have in stock, but always consider engraving of secondary importance. You may receive a "B" (or "A") with a different design of border, or a duck or a dog in place of the two quail or a dog pointing game, we cannot tell as it is our aim to give a variety of designs."

Daryl or Researcher will no doubt clarify

Here's merely an observation. The earlier A's and B's engraving was not as extensive as later guns. It appears (to me) that the later guns were more finely engraved, (less "cartoonish" as far as the dogs) but my opinion is only due to viewing the one's I've seen come up for auction. I've passed on a couple due to this reasoning.

Regards
Ken

Here is a "B" grade

Thanks guys. Well...that's as clear as mud! *lol*

I mean, Baker's 'disclosure' as you've recounted it is almost comical. It amount's to, "We know what you want, and we know what you've paid for, so leave it to us to cobble together a gun befitting your budget based on whatever we have on hand at the time, which may or may not be what you think you are explicitly ordering."

Um...

So, back to my OP. Forgive me for asking for a more difininitve answer (perhaps I'm thick). A grade trumps B grade, when comparing guns from the same production date?

- Nudge

"The Baker Gun Quarterly", Volume 5, No. 3, May 1900 courtesy of David Noreen: "The Paragon grade was introduced in 1898, but with the effort to produce the A and B grade guns, the necessary time and energy has not been devoted to bring it to the notice of the shooting public. No Paragon Grade guns are kept in stock and all are made to order, requiring 4 to 8 weeks to complete. The normal engraving is scroll, dogs, and game; but may be ordered all scroll, scroll and dogs, or scroll and game."
With fine four-blade Damascus barrels with extra fine figure, $60 net. Same price in 1902 Sears catalog

A-Grade with Fine Four-Blade Damascus barrels $42.75 net. The 1902 Sears catalog No. 112 lists non-ejector damascus barrel Baker A grade - $37.50

B-Grade with "London Damascus twist" barrels for $35 net. 1902 Sears catalog No. 112 Model B grade- $32

Thank you Drew!!

Ok, so bearing that in mind, any idea of production estimates for each?

Let's just say Paragon, A, B, R and S in the pre-Fulton era.

- Nudge

Have y'all been to

http://www.bakercollectors.com/

Mike

Yes, I have been. Truthfully, while they offer lots of information, the syntax of how it's laid out is poor, and doesn't follow any particular line of reasoning (e.g. timeline, or price point).

I also have not found production estimates on there (recognizing factory records are non-existent).
- Nudge