doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com The Nutcase that lives to hunt waterfowl

Back in the 60's and 70's it wasn't environment advocates or bunny huggers wading around the marshes picking up dead ducks and geese to find what was killing off waterfowl it was duck hunters. Lead poisoning was a real problem in some areas.

Yes the swans do get necropsied to determine what the cause of death. For many years that area also had a few pheasant release sights and one of the major roosting areas for swans was on the receiving end of a trap range. The pheasant release sights had corn planted on them that was left standing for waterfowl also. Other birds die in the area also but aren't near as visible as the swans and the swans have a number of people that monitor them.

Yes lead stays in the enviroment a long time but for the same reason you have to dig for gold and can pan it, lead is heavier than sand , gravel and mud and with wave action and current settles deeper every time it moves. It doesn't take long for lead shot in shallow waters to work it's way out of reach of birds.

I've been hunting ducks for 58 years now and most of it with a double gun of one kind or another. Back in MN we shot steel for nearly 10 years before it became a national mandate and the first couple of years I shot a Marlin 120 Skeet gun until the SKB 100 26" IC and MOD proved to handle and ounce of steel 4's just fine and was my goto duck gun until just a few years ago when the hammer guns of my youth called to me.

Shooting steel isn't a big deal, people just need to learn the limitation and abide by them and them it will kill just as good as lead. Instead of taking the shot when you think you can kill them let them make another pass and take them when you know you'll kill them. I'd much rather go home with four ducks than splash down 10 and only retrieve 7. I still count any un-retrievable duck in my bag.

You can call me a nut case but lead ingestion in waterfowl was a real problem in certain areas.

When hear someone say they quit duck hunting because of steel shot , they weren't really a duck hunter and were just looking for a reason to quit. If they made me hunt ducks with an arrow on a string so I wouldn't pollute with wads and shot and could retrieve every duck I hit I'd still be duck hunting. Heck back in the day I used to hitch across Wisconsin with my old hammer gun strapped to my duffle to hunt ducks in the river bottoms near Lacrosse and cut classes at college to get in on the evening flight of woodies on a local beaver pond. As a kid my dad would drop me on the river in one town and I'd float the river down to the next town stuff my gun in the bushes and hike to the tavern in my IKE jacket and hip boots to call dad and have him pick me up.

your right...your nuts..

.im concerned you have been eating lead

The problem is that because of the few areas that lead shot might have contributed to lead poisoning of wildfowl, we are constantly being strong armed with new restrictions on lead shot in areas where it makes absolutely no sense.

Despite your disdain for hunters that complain about the ban on lead shot, it is these "occasional" hunters that make up the vast majority of hunting license sales. Every time that hunting becomes more restrictive, and/or expensive it harms us all, and the future of our pastime.

I haven't hunted ducks quite as long as oskar, but share his addiction to them. He has had success with steel, as have I, but it has meant changing the way I hunt ducks. I was never a sky buster, but to say that steel today is just as effective as lead was in the old days, is wrong. We have adjusted, take closer shots now, and still kill limits. But, that does NOT mean steel is just as effective as lead as a killer of birds. It just means we have had to adjust. Those who were unwilling to make the necessary adjustments no longer hunt ducks, and blame bad, or misguided, research for their woes. I have a sneakin' suspicion that most of the people who say they can't kill ducks with steel today weren't great shakes with lead either. It's easy to blame poor shooting on sorry equipment. I will admit to refusing to give up lead for ducks here for many years after the ban, believing that, as Joe said, my ethics in not wounding ducks outweighed my lawbreaking. Steel loads are light years better today than they were initially.

I wrote protests to the agency that forced steel upon us, the USFWS I believe it was. I think it was a knee jerk reaction to a limited problem. But, it is what it is, and die hard duck hunters will do what it takes to kill ducks, in spite. My BSS is not a vintage duck gun, but it is a helluva duck killer over dekes, with good steel loads. When I really want to take my Foxes to the blind, I use bismuth, but in all honesty, it is only marginally better than the best steel loads, IMO. Oh, how I would love to pass shoot ducks leaving the roost with 3" magnum loads of lead #4s in my Super Fox, one more time.

SRH

I admit I was only a part time duck hunter even when lead was still legal for them....would rather chase ditch chickens...ducks/geese are only a diversion but an enjoyable one.... with my nice older guns I use one of the soft nontox shots available at 40 to 50 for a box of 10....usually jump shooting walking along a creek....or my BPS with steel for geese and pass shooting....don't decoy any more just to much junk to carry in and out....but I do miss that marsh smell early in the morning, putting out the dekes with the old rubber chest waders on....and the smell of a hot cup of coffee out of the thermos as you settled in listening for wings in the dark....

I don't think I'm a sky buster either, but boy do I like good long range pass shooting. By all accounts, there are a ton more recreational fishing folks than duck hunters, but apparently lead sinkers don't affect wildlife or our drinking water. Go figure.

Oskar I admire your passion ,but must admit I don't appreciate the effect of lead on waterfowl there's just not that many ducks where I live and hunt to accumulate the kind of hunter introduced lead you speak of ....but I can tell you this ,I hate steel and the price of the alternatives ,in Newfoundland where I live you can't hunt Ptarmigan and not find water ,basically every 20 feet there's a puddle or pond ,we have numerous Snipe that the dogs love to point ,but I have to switch out when it gets in the air and I realize what was pointed ,or pass ...no trouble to guess what to do,Pass.

The ducks here are mostly incidental ,we walk them up from a puddle while Ptarmigan hunting so maybe two or three opportunities a season ,the lead ban for waterfowl and migratory birds in this Province is basically a crock of shit ,at its first we were told we had to switch out whenever in the vicinity of a body of water ,ludicrous!!! it was just as well to stay home ...and thankfully that was never enforced ,I now pass on snipe or ducks ,or target them specifically and carry the "right " ammo accordingly ,it really took the edge off the experience for hunters up here and created quite a few lawbreakers who just said no ....this law when passed should never have been a blanket issue across the country ,I fully realize how it can be a problem in heavily hunted areas of the country that have been shot over for a hundred years , but for here it's just too stupid to talk about .

I love hunting snipe and I usually have a dozen or so dedicated trips to snipe fields each season. Snipe season also extends beyond the end of other seasons. I welcome the fact that our state's law permits the use of lead for hunting snipe in the same areas that duck hunting is done. Unlike federal and other states' lands, it's the quarry not the land that controls the lead ban on state lands.

I tossed in the towel on hunting waterfowl right after inferior shot became mandatory. It wasn't the only reason, as I discovered I enjoyed being out in the uplands with my Father's Irish setter more than sitting in a duck blind, but, it was a factor. My Dad kept duck hunting. The dog was perfectly happy to go with me.
Not long after I quit waterfowl, I did start noticing that I was finding wounded grouse in the Sherburn WMA (which, was inferior shot only, for any kind of hunting) which the dog retrieved as cripples, that had infections cooking in their bodies from being winged with inferior shot loads. This was still early in the game, so those loads would have been steel.
Cleaning the birds revealed steel pellets rusting inside the birds, and an infection around it. Lead shot in a non lethal wound typically will stay put, and, stay inert, with few if any side effects from it being there. I've taken a few pheasants that have had two sizes of lead pellets in them in the past, and if it was lead, said bird didn't appear wounded at the time I took it.
I maintain the inferior shot was a dictate, that was intended, along with mismanagement of the uplands at the state level (that was occuring at the same time) that was intended to diminish outdoor pursuits. I will leave the reasons why to others more involved with the process, but, what has happened to the upland experience in most states could have only happened deliberately. It continues to this day with a push for inferior bullets for big game hunting.
Eventually, with enough different dictates, the great majority will say "screw this" and buy a boat and go fishing. Or, take up bowling.
I won't let them win, in my lifetime. I will hunt where they spent my tax dollars to diminish habitat for wild birds, using whatever crap they make me use to attempt to take birds that don't exist there anymore.
Not sure my Son will feel the same, however.

Best,
Ted