doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Shot sizes in some Foreign Ammo

I usually just cut open a shell and count pellets. There's enough difference in pellet count between an ounce (or whatever) of 7 1/2's and 8's that you should be able to tell the difference without much problem. Even without a mike, if you have American shot size whatever, you can always do an eyeball comparison to foreign loads that contain the same shot size you're comparing to--at least according to what it says on the box.

Finally got to feeling better enough to get out to the shop and do some investigating on the RIO shot sizes, as loaded in their 1 oz. and 1 1/8 oz. target loads, blue box and brown box respectively.

Here's what I found by dumping shot, counting out twenty (20) shot pellets, and weighing the lot to get an average weight for each pellet, then weighing the entire shot charge.

RIO (blue box) 1 oz. / #7 1/2
20 pellets / 23.0 grs. = 1.15 grs. each
weight of payload - 425.5 grs. (12 grs. light of 1 oz.)

RIO (brown box) 1 1/8 oz. / #8
20 pellets / 19.1 grs. = .955 gr. each
weight of payload - 473.1 grs. (19.1 grs. light of 1 1/8 oz.)

What we can see from this is that the # 7 1/2 shot, as loaded in this RIO load, is very close to the Eley chart size for #7 1/2, which should weigh 1.12 grs.

Also, the #8 shot, as loaded in this RIO load, is very close to the Eley chart size for #8, which should weigh .97 gr.

Looks to me like they are loading pretty nearly true European sizes in what they sell from here to Texas.

SRH

Stan, You are right . They are loading Eley- European sizes.. Have you miked them yet? I think that will confirm what you found by weighing.

According to shot charts US "Chilled Shot" sizes run about; #7� = 350/oz #8 = 410/oz & #9 = 585/oz. This would make their per pellet weights respectively 1.25gr, .94gr & .75gr
While these do run light they are not down by a full shot size. You thus still have heavier pellets than if you were shooting US #'s 8 & 9.

Leighton, I did mike them and it confirmed it.

Miller, you are exactly right, and I am happy about that, at least, since I've got a good many on hand.

Two things I have determined from this. One, I can kill doves and clays reliably, with shot that is closer to 8s than 7 1/2s, at 60 yards, which I would have previously argued against. And, I probably won't buy any more of their 8s.

SRH

Well, you all got me looking too. I measured several pellets several times. There was a slight but expected pellet-to-pellet difference. What I didn't expect was bigger differences depending on where I measured on pellets in some ammo. The numbers below are average/approximate (~).

• Winchester AA #8: ~2.18mm (closer to US 8-1/2)
• Holland & Holland 'Royal' Game #8-1/2-US: ~2.21mm
• Fiocci #8: ~2.25mm
• Holland & Holland Light Load #7-1/2-US: ~2.31mm
• Westley Richards Classic Game #7-UK: ~2.32mm
• Winchester Universal #7-1/2: ~2.36mm
• Holland & Holland 'Royal Game' #7.5-US: ~2.36mm
• Gamebore Pure Gold F2 #7-UK: ~2.4mm
• B & P High Pheasant #7: ~2.58mm (closer to UK or Italian 6)
• Holland & Holland 'Royal' Game #6-US: ~2.7mm

What does it all mean? Unless the difference between the box marking and the pellet is unusually great, not much. Different guns are going to shoot the same shells at different velocities and create different pattern sizes even if the guns have the same diameter choke tubes.

I few years ago chronographed an assortment of factory ammo through several guns and recorded velocities in a chart. I shot ten 12ga loads through four guns, three 20ga loads through three guns, and one 28ga load through two guns. The variation in velocity from gun to gun was eye-opening. In 12ga, for example, there were several loads that differed by well over 100fps depending on the gun they were fired from. And the velocity printed on the box was meaningless. One particular 12ga load averaged 150fps slower than claimed. It was advertised as shock absorbing with low recoil and I guess that was how they achieved it.

Truths

• What is on the box can only be used as a general guide.
• Slight variations in shot size and velocity between different manufacturers loads has little to to with real world performance. After all, its a shotgun.
• But, consistency between individual pellet sizes and shapes within a particular load is relevant. The same goes for velocity differences. Shot-to-shot consistency is what matters. Once you know your load and what it does in your gun, you want it to perform the same way shot after shot after shot. This is where quality control comes in.
• A choke of a particular diameter in one gun does little to predict the pattern of that choke diameter in another gun. Too much happens with the shot as it goes through the forcing cone and down the barrel. And forcing cone lengths and contours differ, as do barrel internal dimensions.

That's all well and good as long as the shot is the same alloy. The differences in specific gravity between low antimony shot and high antimony shot can cause differences in weight of more than a few percent.

'Truths' above: VERY well said.

"Nominal" US sizes;

#9 = .080" = 2.03mm
#8� = .085" = 2.16mm
#8 = .09" = 2.29mm
#7� = .095 = 2.41mm
#7 = .100" = 2.54mm
#6 = .110" = 2.79mm
#5 = .120" = 3.05mm
#4 = .130" = 3.3mm

As noted above, even with US shells, it's not a bad idea to cut open a shell and check shot size. I've found shells that were supposed to be US 6 (nominal 225/oz) that counted below 200 and over 250.

That being said, if you're breaking targets or killing birds to your satisfaction with a particular load, you may want to avoid looking too hard at either pellet count or pattern. Might upset your confidence level.