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#390191 01/12/15 08:12 PM
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Did anyone on this forum get it? Appeared to be a great find.

Last edited by kcordell; 01/12/15 08:14 PM.
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Where was it?


When an old man dies a library burns to the ground. (Old African proverb)
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I talked to the owner on the phone about the gun. He said it was a nice gun but had had some extractor work. I sent the funds yesterday and will be looking forward to receiving it. As with all the older guns on the net most of the time there is something to ponder. In this case a 20 ga Brit hammer that would fit my dimensions was worth the chance.

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Great buy a pretty gun with nice wood! Congrats!

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Would really like to see good closeup photos of the gun when you're able to provide them. I believe it has their patented Simplex action, which you'll find interesting. I have one in 12 gauge by them.


When an old man dies a library burns to the ground. (Old African proverb)
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I shoot regularly with a friend who has one of their 16 gauge hammer guns. It is very fine, well made and he shoots well with it.

Some info from IGC on this interesting firm:

Name Williams & Powell
Address1 10 Pool Lane
Address2 13 South Castle Street
Address3 29 South Castle Street
Address4 5 Thomas Street (25 South Castle Street )
Address5 25 South Castle Street (48 Oldhall Street)
Address6 27 South Castle Street
Address7 Phoenix Chambers. ?
City/Town Liverpool
County Lancashire
Country United Kingdom
Trade Gunmakers
Other Address
Dates 1780-1905
Notes

In 1833 Thomas Williams & Samuel Powell bought the business of Mrs Ann Patrick (formerly Edward Patrick and before that Jeremiah Patrick) at 10 Pool Lane, Liverpool. The business was established in 1780. Thomas was born in 1799 in Bangor, Carnarvon, Wales; Samuel was born in Lancashire, probably in Liverpool, in 1801. They were probably apprenticed to and worked for the Patrick family. In 1834 they moved the business to 13 South Castle Street, and in 1837 they moved to 29 South Castle Street. Thomas Williams was recorded in the 1841 census as a gun maker living in Neptune Street, Birkenhead, with two daughters, Mary Jane (b.1829) and Elizabeth Ann (b.1830) but no wife was recorded. Samuel Powell was also recorded as a gun maker in the census. He was living in Upper Warwick Street, Liverpool, with two daughters, Mary (b.1819) and Elizabeth (b.1824), but no wife was recorded. In 1846 the partnership ended. It appears that Samuel died because he has not been found in any subsequent censuses, but the firm continued to trade as Williams & Powell.

The 1851 census records Thomas Williams as a master gun maker living at Park View, Claughton, Cheshire, with two previously unrecorded sons, Thomas W (b.1843) and John (b.1845), both born in Claughton. Thomas' first wife obviously died between 1845 and 1850 because by 1851 he had married his second wife, Elizabeth (nee Hughes), a widow born in 1813 in Cumbermere, Cheshire, who had a daughter named Elizabeth (b.1830). In 1860 the firm moved to 25 South Castle Street. In the 1861 census Thomas, who described himself as a gun manufacturer, and Elizabeth, were recorded in Claughton with Thomas W and John, both described as gun makers, and another son, Henry H (Horton) who had been born in 1852. On 24 August 1869 John Williams registered patent No. 2513 for a double bite snap action with bites in the front and rear of the rear bite. The bolt in the rear of the lump was part of a slide under the lump and at the front of this was hinged a curved bite which fitted into a curved recess in the action bar. As the rear bolt and slide move forwards so the front bite revolves and locks into the lump. The slide was drawn back by a lever behind the action face pivoted horizontally in the middle. The top of the lever was pushed forward against a leaf spring by a cam and top lever. In about 1870 the firm were appointed Gunmakers to HRH the Duke of Gloucester. From 1870 to about 1874 the firm occupied additional premises at 5 Thomas Street.

In the 1871 census Thomas and Elizabeth's address was 1 Shrewsbury Road, Claughton (Park View). Of their children, only Henry was living at home, he was described as an 18 year old gun maker. In this census Thomas described himself as a gun maker employing 6 men and 5 boys and clearly, they were a large firm of gunmakers. In 1875 John Williams registered patent No. 1247 for a top lever with a locking bolt which, when the gun was closed, connected with a barrel extension which engaged a slot in the breech face. The patent included an extractor with twin external legs which engaged with slots in the action bar. In the 1881 census Thomas, Elizabeth and Henry were living at the same address. Thomas was an 85 year old gun maker (not retired gun maker!). Thomas W appears to have died at some time after 1861 but John was recorded living at Spring Bank, Long Lane, Aughton, Lancashire. He described himself as a gun manufacturer and was obviously in control of the firm. By this time he was married to Caroline (b.1851 in Meeson, Shropshire). They had a son named Thomas W (b.1872 in Claughton) and two daughters, Carrie M (b.1874 in Aughton) and Laura E (b.1878 in Aughton). From about 1890 to about 1894 the firm had additional premises at 48 Oldhall Street where they operated as wholesale and retail merchants and exporters. In about 1897 the firm were recorded as gun and cartridge makers at 27 South Castle Street. In 1905 the firm was sold Westley Richards of the firm of W Richards (not Westley Richards & Co) but continued to trade as Williams & Powell.

In 1909 they were recorded as gun makers at Phoenix Chambers, as was W Richards, but an alternative address has been reported at 1 Exchange Street West; this may be the address of Phoenix Chambers. Some early guns were proved in London, no London address found.

Other Info
The firm sold Kynoch Patent Grouse Ejector cartridges under their own name, also Frederick Joyce & Co's waterproof Gastight cartridges (post 1895). They sold their own brands under the names the "Castle", "Express" (post 1900) and "Express Sixteen" (post 1900).

Tim

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Congratulations! I had hit the buy it now button then my senses came about..(too many projects). Extremely tempting for a seriously uncommon 20 gauge in a size that would have fit me as well. Looking forward to pictures.

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Wish my 16 gauge WC Scott hammer gun had those kind of modern dimensions.....

DLH


Out there at the crossroads molding the devil's bullets. - Tom Waits
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Dwight,

Your new gun has exceptionally nice lines, long & lean. And beautiful wood.

Enjoy.

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