doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com Case Forming and Reloading 6.5X57R

I recently bought a drilling in 6.5X57R. I have a large inventory of Norma 7X57R cases and I attempted to resize these cases in a set of 6.5X57 RCBS dies. The resized cases will not chamber in the drilling. I have examined case drawings of 7X57, 7X57R and 6.5X57 but I don't have dimensions of the 6.5X57R case. As near as I can measure, the rear of the chamber is .463 and my die will only take the case head down to .471. I don't see the need to buy a set of dies specific to this caliber if I can use another die to reduce the cases at first, as this is the only gun I have in this caliber. Once fire formed all I need to do is size case necks in the future. Any ideas?

Vol423,
Without having your brass and rifle "in hand",I can't be 100% sure, but I suspect the 7x57R cases may be a couple thousanths larger than the 6.5x57R.Most people think the two cases started off with the same head diameter,but the 6.5 was on the M88 case and the 7mm was based on the M93 case, which was a couple thousanths larger in head diameter.Since chamber tolerances have to be on the + side and cartridge tolerances have to be on the - side, they often combine so that the cases are useable.As you can see,sometimes they don't.Also different manufacturers make them the same size for ease of manufacturing, and others not.The shoulder on the 6.5 is a little forward of the one on the 7mm, but that shouldn't cause your problem. How about trying this: remove the expander assy from the 6.5x57 FL die,install a 22Hornet shell holder(or block off the top of the normal one with a piece of steel)and force the case into the die,all the way to the rim.Then the case will have to be driven out with a close fitting punch.Once you do one case,see if it will chamber.If not,smoke the whole case with a lighter or candle and try again to chamber it.This should show where the interference is(if not the head, could be the length since necking a case to smaller dia usually makes them longer).BTY 6.5x57 dies are the correct dies for the 6.5x57R, just with the correct shell holder.As an after thought, did you do as I ususlly do and set the 6.5x57 die to size the cases to just "kiss" the shoulder of the cases fired in your rifle?If so,resetting it so that the shellholder bumps the die may do the trick, and you won't have to go to the "punch out" deal. Let us know how it works out.Your edit was being done as I was writing the sbove and the dimensions you inserted support my thought on the problem.If the suggested "fix" doesn't work, you might try a 270/30-06/444 or some other die to size the head.

Mike

I'm just about ready to buy some factory ammo and try that. The 7X57R cases are just too big. Am I correct interpreting the proof marks 6.4X57 as a 6.5X57R? The gun is a Simpert & Krieghoff proofed in 1938 with a 10 gram bullet.

Vol423,
The proofmarks don't show the nominal caliber(later they did), rather they show actual measurements.The marks on your rifle are consistent with 6.5X57R,just as you said. It is perfectly fine to buy factory ammo and use those cases, but after reading your postings over the years, I'm a little surprised you are ready to give up now.With enough work and equipment,we can make considerably smaller cases than 6.5x57R from 7x57R. I don't have Norma 7x57R cases( the RWS,DWM, and Z&B cases I do have may be different),otherwise I would try to work out a way to use the cases you have.Tenn. and East Al. are not that far apart, if you come down here one day, with the rifle, cases and dies, we can work it out.On reflection,I remember the headsize of 9.3x74R is usually slightly smaller than 6.5x57R, so forcing a 7x57R case into a 9.3x74R sizing die(all the way to the rim)and driving it out with a punch, may work. I don't remember whether you have the 9.3 die or not.I would offer to trade 6.5x57R cases for 7x57R cases,but I have more of that caliber than I need for right now. By the way,the 6.5x57R is more than worth the trouble,mine is great and you will think the same of yours.
Mike

Vol423,
Just because I'm hardheaded and can't let something like this beat me, I piddled around with 7x57R cases this afternoon. They were RWS, instead of Norma cases, and my 6.5x57R dies are "Eagle" instead of RCBS.The first case wouldn't chamber, after FL sizing to 6.5x57.Also not when pushed as far as I could into the die(with pusher instead of shell holder)with the loading press.It didn't have enough power to move the shoulder back, and I didn't want to use hydraulics(most shops don't have it). I then sized the shoulder smaller in a 6.5x58 P. die, still didn't chamber.I then pushed it into what I call a "shaving" die(shop made)to reduce headsize-hardly any shsvings- and it still didn't chamber.I then checked the case length of 6.5x57R RWS case fired in my drilling. It was 2.234",Barnes shows case length as 2.23", case length of reformed 7x57R RWS case was 2.251". During all this, I noticed the rim of the reformed case was standing proud,so it was thicker than the factory 6.5x57R case. I shortened the case and thinned the rim, then it chambered easily. Since I had done so many other things to the case, I resized another case, shortened it, and thinned the rim(for reference-thinned enough to remove the headstamp). It chambered, although not as easily as the other one.This is common with reformed cases, but usually loosens up with fireforming.Usually, primers can still be seated in cases with rims thinned this much, but if not, Lyman makes a primer pocket uniformer that will deepen the pockets. With this, I'm satisfied I could make cases from 7x57R, if I didn't have 6.5x57R cases.
Mike

Just look into the European CIP max case dimensions. The bases and rims are different.
7x57R: rim diam 13.5 mm, rim thickness 1.60 mm, base 12.05 mm
6.5x57R: rd 13.32 mm, rt 1.40 mm, base 11.92 mm
So the 6.5x57R can usually not be easily formed from 7x57R brass. You better start with
8x57IRS brass. This one shares the base and rim dimensions with the 6.5x57R.

Regarding giving up on making 6.5s out of 7mms, some times it's good for a man to know his limitations. This is a really nice tight gun and I'd like to hunt with it this fall instead of spending my time on case forming. For $16.50 a box, I ordered five boxes of factory S&B ammo and I'll shoot the 131 grain bullets and then load some 150 to 154 grainers and see which bullets shoot closer to the sights. I know that S&B brass isn't the best, but 100 rounds will last a long time when shot as sparingly as I do a drilling.

The S&B ammo came today. Perfect fit. Now I'll have to see how it shoots

And you can take a 444 Marlin case and size the case in an 8 Mauser die, and then a 7 Mauser die and then a 6.5x57 die and have a boxer primed case.

But I find the S&B ammo great stuff for my drilling

Mike

as to your cases not fitting. Take a shell holder, and grind, or mill or file a few thousandths off the top, set the sizer lower and let us know how that works for you.

Great Vol!!! Can't wait to hear how it shoots!