doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com How many of you shoot muzzleloaders?

Dang, I think I drooled my keyboard to a sto

Beautiful work Greg!!!! And I agree that the flintlock amazes people as to its quickness and its efficiency. People stand spellbound looking at that lock, shaking their heads as I explain how it works. Then a quick sample shot and it goes off in a blink of an eye the usual responce is "wow"!!!
All the best

Yes. Too many people are exposed to cheapie "repro" flinters. The lock/touchhole system on most of those is just horrible - it is amazing they work at all (often they don't). Plus, most people don't know how to manage or load a flinter - they will fill the pan with powder, so it burns like a fuse, and pound bullets down the bore with a hammer (!!) or a "short-starter".

The old-timers never did that - they loaded easily with the ramrod and they developed loads that didn't build up fouling in rifles, so they could shoot all day long without needing to clean between every few shots, etc, etc. They used just a touch of powder in the pan for instant ignition, etc.

A well-built and well-managed flinter in the hands of someone who knows what he is doing is a very effective sporting arm indeed. The biggest weaknesses are the poor BC and terminal ballistics of a roundball and the fact that the traditional tiny, low iron sights are very hard for those of us with some years under our belts to see.

I bought a double barrel muzzle loader in 1969. It was a W. Richards in fair shape. I recently wrote an article about restoring it in the Feb. issue of Muzzle Blast mag.

I mostly use it for Skeet at the national shoot at Friendship.
Both black powder and the sub work fine for Skeet.

Tnx
RPr

I started in 1975 with a CVA flinter in .50 and sold it, bought the parts for this one with the money.
A good friend finished what I started and I have killed several white tailed deer with this .50 shown below.
Next is a 12 ga. flintlock fowler sometime this early summer.

I started with a 1863 Zouve replica 58 cal, and still find it a lot of fun, then threw together one of the old CVA 50 cal double bbl. kits. Finally had a Caywood 36cal souther mountain rifle built in flintlock. Using 000 buckshot and about 30gr of fff it is great, not much fouling and accurate. I just don't have enough time to shoot it much.

Can we get Greg FIVE stars please?!

Some very nice work.

Mark

Hello,

I have been watching the site for quite awhile and finally decided to post because I have become interested in either purchasing a ML Shotgun or builiding one from kit. I have done a kit so I am a little skittish.

Do any of you have advice on buying or building? AND If so any recomendations would be greatly appreciated. I have looked at Pedersoli and some kits at Dixie Gun Works.

My uncle got me interested in doubles as a kid watching him wield a Citori in flooded cypress like something out of a novel. He also shoots an LC Smith that was my Great Great Grandfathers. I have owned my double 12 Ga for about 8 years and love it. I bought it on my own and still get ribbed by buddies in the duck blind for buying an O/U when they all have Autos. I tell them if I did everything like you I would have two exwives and three kids that hate me, since I didn't I have one awesome wife no kids and a heck of a lot more expendable income.

Built my first rifle, a Green River Rifle Works .54 Leman in '83. Used it for deer and gravitated to competition. Although a .54 is definitely not the ideal offhand target gun, it won the South Carolina State Championship four times and placed in the top three five more in the '80's and early '90's. Bought a Bean style .36 about '92 for head shooting squirrels and found it to be quite accurate on paper with a .355 ball so began using it in competition. Not great in the wind, but it won the S. C. State Championship several times, too. Then I lost the keenness of eyesight at about age 50 that is SO necessary for fine competitive notch and post sight work, and kinda lost interest in paper punching.

In '83 and '84 I competed at Friendship in offhand rifle and buffalo rifle. Had built a 13# 15 oz. .45 cal buffalo rifle with Redfield 75 and front aperture that is superbly accurate. I have targets I have shot with it using a .455 ball that measures 5/8" inch ctc for five shots. Many will deny that a patched round ball can do that, but I know better. Many other old bench and buffalo shooters do, too.

Bought a 16 ga. Powell double at Friendship in '84 and killed many limits of doves with it here and in S.Carolina with 1 oz. of 7 1/2's over and equal volume of 2F Goex. Sold it a few years ago to a friend and was recently given an original Manton, (not a Joe), 16 ga. double by a dear friend and his wife. It is in nearly unfired condition. Perfect bores and absolutely no pitting around the nipples. Haven't tried it out yet, but will eventually on early season doves this year.

Agree with Greg on the dismal BC of round balls, that is a scientific fact. But not on the poor terminal ballistics. My years of experience with them on game from squirrels to whitetails has been quite different. I have found that the cohesive nature of pure lead, and that is all I use, causes the percentage of weight retention to be quite high. That is, when you don't have complete penetration. And penetration can be phenomenal for a projectile of such low sectional density. In one instance I shot a 220# buck in the front of the chest at 80 yds. with a 237 grain .535 ball ahead of 120 grains of FFg. It penetrated the buck lengthwise and exited underneath his right hind leg never to be seen again. Unbelievable wound channel. A .45 cal. ball ahead of only 60 grains will exit a big buck shot sideways through the ribs/lungs. When the balls do hit bone they deform, and become even more deadly as they plow on, retaining much of their original weight. There's never been a perfect bullet made, and round balls have many faults, but I've never found terminal ballistics to be a problem. But then, I've never tackled dangerous game with one. Many others have, though. I would agree that compared to modern jacketed bullets under many conditions the round balls will come in second. But a deer or smaller thin-skinned game shot properly with one will never know the difference.

My experiences and those of my acquaintances only. Stan

I am one of the shooting instructors for our 4-H Field & Stream Club, instructing mostly in shotgun (5-stand & sporting clays) and muzzleloading. Our kids all shoot muzzleloading rifles for competition (in the NRA Youth Hunter Education Challenge), and many use them for hunting during both the muzzleloading and youth seasons. And some go so far as hunting dove with our double barrelled Petersoli ML shotguns.

I personally started ML with an old civil war .58 cal ML by Springfield (I think) many years ago just for fun. It caught on to the point that I seemed to always have at least one muzzleloading rifle or shotgun in my inventory. I used to take one of my shotguns to the skeet range for fun and everyone wanted to try their hand using a FL waterfowler on # 3 or #4 stations.

Now, with our 4-H kids we use mostly T/C caplock rifles for hunting and YHEC competition; however, Texas State 4-H championships are now including muzzleloading trap. We have just ordered shotgun barrels for our caplock rifles. The kids would much rather practice shooting with the ML than with the modern firearms. Jim Haynes