doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Tobin Arms - G.B. Crandall

A Special Lefever - by Philip Kroll. Story appears on page 169 of Double Gun Journal - Volume Ten Issue 1 Spring 1999.
Third paragraph of subject article states in part, - "In its later years, the Tobin company was headed by a Mr. Gladstone Blake Crandall. What an interesting and influential person he must have been! It has been reported that Mr. Crandall was a friend and hunting companion of Jack O'Connor, the well known U.S. gun writer and hunter."
Can anyone tell me WHERE that Crandall-O'Connor relationship "has been reported"?? G.B. Crandall passed in 1951? and Jack O'Connor in 1978.
ALSO, I would also appreciate ANY further information about G.B. Crandall. I have spoken with Roy T. in Woodstock several times, and I have the two "Tobin" articles by David Noreen in my Double Gun Journals of 1994 and 1997.
With thanks for any help or leads - Ian Nixon.

Gladstone Blake Crandall seems to have been pretty well respected for his varmint rifles. He gets a lot of coverage in C. S. Landis' book Twenty-Two Caliber Varmint Rifles.
I just looked at the index for The Rifle Book by O'Connor and the index in Complete Book of Rifles and Shotguns and I don't find G.B. Crandall listed.

I know about that special Lefever C Grade marked G B Crandall.

Ian,

I have a good friend here in Oshawa, now in his late 80's, who, in his teens, worked for Crandall, at his shop in Woodstock. I'll fill in the details next time you're here.

Best,
Ron.

BTW, O'Connor also used to shoot woodchucks in this area, with another acquaintance of mine here in Oshawa.

In a letter to a customer, Crandall talks about the rifles he makes with 22 Hornet, 22-3000, and the 22 Niedner Magnum, which it appears Crandall developed. Letter is from 1937. Crandall also sells reloading tools and powder measures with his name on them and of his design.

Thanks Ron, and all.
I'll follow up all leads.
Ron, our gang would sure like to have you and Claudio as our Sanford Saturday night table guests again. I'll "visit" after The Southern and return in early May, stopping in at six Civil War battle sites of the "western theatre", visiting family and friends along the way and crossing at Detroit. I'll spend a night in Pickering and try to get together with you then.

DH: thanks for that.
In my Crandall file, I have an original Crandall Arms catalog. On the cover, it states he is successor to Tobin Arms. IIRC it's about a 20 page booklet that advertises his general gunsmithing services, boring 'hard shooting' shotgun barrels, etc. along with his period commercial reloading and hunting oriented goods for sale. From the date of the printed testimonials from happy customers, I would date the catalog from the late 1920s - early 1930s.
Crandall Arms in Woodstock Ontario appears to be an earlier version of the similar "Elwood Epps" of the 1940s, Epps being then located not far away in Clinton Ontario. Since Crandall Arms reputedly existed until 1951, it's quite likely that Crandall Arms and "Ellwood Epps" operated concurrently for a time. I would expect it's almost certain that Crandall in Woodstock, Epps in Clinton, and Parkinson in London all knew each other. I bought a Carcano carbine in Parkinson's London gun shop on Saturday 23 November 1963 for testing. I was in the Epps - Clinton store a number of times in 1968, and it was quite the place. Wish I knew then, what I know now, and had some real $$$ to spend.
Too soon ve get oldt, und too late schmardt.

Crandall seems to have put out catalogues about as fast as he put out guns. In my quarter centruy of searching for things Tobin, I've gotten two catalogues from the business in Norwich and some flyers, two catalogues from the company in Woodstock, and four different Tobin/Crandall catalogues.

Ian, it seems that Crandall never stopped with his cartridge innovation. A later letterhead lists other specialty cartridges. Maybe this is part of the O'Connor connection. Hopefully, we'll get more info. Yes, I know about being "smart" earlier. I was too smart to buy Damascus guns when almost no one wanted them.

A bit on the O'Connor -Crandall possible connection. Letter from The Lone Eagle Lodge website.---------------




I'm fortunate enough to have inherited through my late uncle a letter that was sent sometime back in the late 40's possibly early 1950's to my Grandfather from Jack O'Connor.
The letter was neatly folded inside the cardboard box which held my Grandfathers reloading press..a unit made by G.B. Crandall Woodstock Ontario for the .257 Roberts.

So here it is........ .from the typewriter of Jack to the readers of Lone Eagle........

The letter is undated but it is typed on the typical typewriter of the era complete with XX'd out typing errors.
Then signed in fountain pen by the man himself.
The letter is as follows....
..................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
"This data is intended only................................................................................................................................From Jack O'Conner
as a helpful guide. Outdoor life assumes no responsibility ........................................... ...........................................Shooting Editor
for any accidents which may ...........................................................................................................................OUTDOOR LIFE
stem from its use. ........................................................................................................................................353 Fourth Ave.
....................................................................................................................................................................New York 10,N.Y.

RELOADING THE .257 ROBERTS
The .257 owner will greatly increase his rifles usefulness and his pleasure in using it if he reloads his cartridges.And he will also save money,since the brass case of the factory cartridge represents about half the total cost of the ammunition.Before the war,certain .25 caliber bullets could be obtained very cheaply.Now all bullets are expensive.Nevertheless,a genuine savings can be effected by the hand loader.Besides that ,the .257 owner can have,with one load,a rifle that isn't too far behind the .270.

PITCH OF RIFLING
Factory .257 rifles have barrels with a 1-10 twist. This is the best all-round twist.It will stabalize bullets. It will stabilize bullets as heavy as 120 grains and give superb accuracy to the 100-gr.bullet.With the 60 and 87 grain bullets,however,somewhat better accuracy is obtained with the 1-12 twist.

CARTRIDGE LENGTH
Factory .257 rifles have short magazines and their chambers have short throats.That's because the original .257 loads had round-nose bullets.Because of the short magazine,the man who handloads spitzer bullets will have to seat them deep so the cartridges will work through the magazine.Since the bullet must then make a big jump to contact the barrel rifling,accuracy falls off.It is easy to make the magazine of the Winchester Model 70 longer.Remove the bolt stop from the bolt ,the block from the magazine and substitute a 30/06 follower.Spitzer bullets can then be seated out to touch or almost touch the lands,and yet work through the magazine.
With the Remington Model 722,the magazine must be milled out behind the lower locking lug recess.Some gunsmiths report better accuracy with longer throats,and many factory .257 rifles have been rethroated. My own Model 70 has a lengthened magazine but a standard throat,and will shoot into a minute of angle.So the necessity of rethroating for top accuracy is open to question.

Since hundreds of custom .257 rifles have been made on Mauser and Springfield actionsby various gunsmiths with various reamers,any dope on overall cartridge length would be useless.Obviously,overall length is determined by the throat of the chamber and by the length of the magazine.

CASES
Remington,Winchester and Western cases differ slightly in capacity,so for good accuracy ,one should stick to a single brand of case.In .257 cases made from 30/06 brass,powder capacity is much less and loads that are O.K for commercial cases will produce high pressures.Cases should always be trimmed back to original length after being used 4 or 5 times.

.257 BULLETS
In a good .257 superb accuracy can be obtained with the Winchester 100 gr. Silvertip bullet and the Remington soft-point Core-Lokt bullets of 100 and 117 gr.But when this was written they were difficult to obtain.Any dealer in reloading supplies can furnish ecellent .25 caliber bullets made bythe small bullet makers: A.B.C. Sierra,Speer,Hornady,M.G.S.
Bullets can be obtained in weights from 60 to 125 grains. Some shoot better than others.Primers--Winchester No.120,Western No.81/2,Remington 9 1/2 and Federal No. 120--can be obtained from the suppliers of bullets.

LOADING DATA
BULLET ............................ POWDER CHARGE ........................ MUZZLE VELOCITY......................... REMARKS
60 gr. .............................44 gr. HiVel No.2.........................3300
60" ............................44 gr No.4676..............................3315
60"...................................41 gr. No.3031.............................3164...........................................Very good accuracy
60"...................................43 gr. No.3031.............................3350
87"...................................38 gr.HiVel No.2...........................2925
87"....................................40 gr. HiVel No.2.........................3034
87"....................................47 gr. No.4350.............................3325.........................................Good accuracy
87".....................................43 gr. No 4064............................3400.........................................A bit hot.
87"......................................41 gr. No. 4064...........................3310.......................................O.K
100".....................................38.5 gr. No.4064....................2900..............................Gives superb accuracy and mild pressure
especially with Remington Core-Lokt and Western Silvertip bullets
100"...................................39.5 No.4064.......................... 2940...............................Good load
100"....................................46 gr. No.4350..........................3040.............................. Good load
100".....................................39 gr. No 4895.........................3025...............................Pretty hot.
100".....................................37.5 No.4320...........................2775...............................Low pressure, accurate
100"......................................39 gr. No.4320.........................2890...............................Very accurate
117"......................................45 gr. No 4350.........................2950..............................Powerful big game load. Pressures about maximum.
117" ....................................46 gr. No 4831.........................2925...............................Good load
120"......................................44 gr. No 4350.........................2940..............................
120".......................................45 gr. No. 4831......................2875..............................Accurate and moderate
120"......................................43 gr. No 4350.........................2860.............................Gives me less than 1-in.groups with A.B.C bullets
125".....................................44 gr. No 4350.........................2850..............................Maximum even in long throated rifles.With short throats try 43 gr.Not particularly accurate


The above dope is based on tests made on Vernon Speer's Potter Counter Chronograph.
Shooting was done with a Model 70 Winchester and a Weaver K-8 scope.
Velocities were taken at 60 ft. and worked back to muzzle with standard formula. NOTE: Velocity varies with chamber,case,bore,primer,bearing surface of bullet and temperature so any figures are to some extent approximate. In the .257 best accuracy is usually obtained with loads under maximum. My pet is a good 100-gr. bullet in front of 38.5 gr. of No. 4064.

My best wishes,
(signature)
JACK O'CONNER

I've made several color copies of the letter so if anyone is interested drop me a PM and I'll throw one in the mail to you.
The old Crandall press is another entire post for another day.... :lol: