doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com Drilling Scope Mount Question

Hi All, I am still plugging away on my scope mount installation. This is for a drilling with claw mount bases. Thanks for all the help so far.

The original bases on this drilling have two claws in the front and one claw in the rear which is a little unusual. I am using a new rear ring and post from NECG and fitting it to the original rear base with the one slot for one claw. Now my question. I would like to be able to set up the drilling mounts so I can shoot using the iron sights and leaving the scope on. The front base is all set with the two claws as there is a nice space between the two claws. But what about the rear base? With a single claw in the center of the base there is no obvious way to be able to see through the rear base. Basically the rear post is just a solid piece of steel that goes from the ring to the base and blocks the view of the open sights. Does anyone have any ideas on whether or not this type of claw mounts would have originally had the ability to use the open sights without removing the scope? Should there be an opening or hole put in the rear ring post to allow viewing through the rear ring post?

Here are a couple of photos to help make it easier to understand what I am asking. As you can see my rear scope mount is solid unlike the front mount which has an opening. I am just wondering if normally there would be an opening in the rear ring with these 1 claw rear mounts?

Thanks for the help and will post some photos when this project is completed.

rfrankhauser,
I doubt you will be able to do what you want. Most normal (Suhler einhakmontage)claw mounts have some kind of opening that people assume is to allow using fixed sights.However, in my admittedly short time(9 years)hunting in Germany, I never saw them used like this.The openings are,instead,intended to save weight.I did observe one of my hunting friends always walk to and from the stand, with his scope detatched ( he shot more than one Roe deer like this).
Mike

Mike,
my best friend often used to shoot wild boars standing up only 2 or 3 meters in front of him with the scope mounted on his Steyr Mannlicher looking straight through the opening of the ( claw ) mount!!! It works very well - usually they didn't run away.... :-) but you are right, usually one take the scope away, therefore it is a Einhakmontage..! My friends scope was fixed on his rifle!
Best Regards,
Gunwolf

Thanks for the information. Sounds like traditionally, the type of claw mounts I have with the single claw in the rear would not have had an opening to allow for shooting with the open sights. The openings are just a way to reduce weight. And also sounds like normally, with drillings the scope is just left on most of the time? Were the shotgun barrels traditionally used for bird and small game hunting? Or were they loaded with slugs? Or maybe one barrel with a slug and one with shot? And when the shotgun barrels were used for birds and small game did the hunter just sight through the scope? Or was the scope removed prior to using the shot barrels? Guess I am just curious as to how these guns were traditionally used in Germany.

Thanks,
Ron

rfrankhauser,
As far as your question of how drillings are used is concerned,I guess the answer could be "all the above".I usually had a rimfire insert barrel (Einstecklauf-EL)is the right shot barrel, to take advantage of the set trigger. I usually used the drilling to hunt Reh(Roe)deer from a highseat.In this case,I mostly kept the scope mounted. I remember shooting a fox with the EL, from the highseat. When it was time to come down,from time to time ,I would shoot a hare for the kitchen, with the EL(hunting in the states I shot racoons,"tree rats", with EL).When hunting Reh with several friends, a few times we would make a "mini drive"while walking out of the woods,usually with the scope removed; but I do remember shooting a hare through the scope, with shot.If you were invited to a field drive hunt for small game,if a drilling was used,the scope would usually be left in the car and the barrels loaded with shot(rifle barrel usually not loaded, for safety).If the hunt was a woods drive for small game,pigs, and maybe minor red deer;the scope may be mounted or carried in the pocket.The barrels would be loaded with shot(not buckshot)slug, or bullet, at the option of the hunter.The loading would be changed and scope mounted/dismounted according to what was sighted by drivers/other hunters.I guess you could say drillings were traditionally used to meet the situation at hand.
Mike

Mike, of course you are right! The Drilling was the all purpose tool for the german hunter. Not seldom it was the only gun/rifle he owned and as you explained it was much more useful with the EL in a small caliber. For former hunting it was ideal. Some hares, some pheasants or partridges and from time to time a roe or boar(seldom!).
rfrankhauser, try the Drilling on clays and you will be astonished how well it shoots!
And despite of the often short barrels it's handling is well, because of the weight of the rifled barrel.
The only problem with the drillings is that sometimes the barrels are confused on each other. I remember hunters shooting with shot on wild boar for 100 m (no problem...for the boar) and a friend of mine shooting on a flying(!) duck, falling down like a stone. Looking on it later we saw a veritable hole through the duck.... He shot it with the 8x57 IRS!!! He was indeed a god shot and this story is not untypical for the good Drilling hunter.
With your Drilling you can go for nearly all game, but you should exercise thoroughly. ;-)

Best Regards,
Gunwolf

Gunwolf,
I once shot a whitetail with the 22lr EL.It came hard on my right side, so I shot from my left shoulder and didn't check the barrel selector as is my habit.I just left and went back the next morning.I went to where it was standing when I shot, and could see it in the woods.That may show that it's where you hold, rather than what you shoot with,but I won't do it again. A very sleepless night until I found it.
Mike

Waidmannsheil Mike!! I see, you are a real Drilling man... ;-)

Best ,
Gunwolf

I think, in years past, scopes were rather unreliable and a see-through was important insurance. Firstly, they were more likely to fog back then and also, many were mounted on some form of drift, so they could get knocked out of line. Modern mounts and scopes are normally quite reliable, so the need is much less.

Sometimes you'll see one mount now days that has see-through provision, but the other mount, other end, does not. In part, I think this happens because objective lenses are getting bigger and there's no room left to have a see-through.

Another reason for a see through is that these are rifle-shotgun combinations, and you don't necessarily want to shoot the shotgun through the scope if you get a sudden chance. However, when I have done so with my Sodia BBF, it worked!

Older Drillings and rifle-shotgun over under's, (B.B.F.) usually had two see-throughs; more modern guns; only if you're lucky. Krieghoff Drillings tend to have a distinctive 3-claw mount arrangement and that rear mount centre-claw really does stop any notions of a see-through. When mounts do have them, usually the opening is quite small and so they're not especially easy to use if you're trying to line up the front sight in the vee-notch for a rifle shot. But as stated previously, if an animal is so close that it's just a big blur in the scope, then yes, they can be useful then.

Gunwolf,
Waidmannsdanke,
KIWI
Your reasoning for "see through mounts" is likely the same reasoning for clawmounts. If a scope is fogged, it can just be removed.

Mike