doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com German 16 Gauge SXS.....Your Experiences

I pulled the trigger on a 16 gauge German SXS and should be receiving it next week. The 16 bore has always been my favorite upland gun. This gun will be used for some of my rough shooting (snow,rain rocks etc.), chukar,gambles quail,early season grouse and in and out of the truck hunting in MT and ND where the gun will be a little more of a tool.
The only other German SXS I have owned was a Merkel 16/20 two barrel set. While the Merkel was a quality gun it did not fit me and being 6'5" I prefer longer barrels. The longest barrels I could find on a 16 gauge Merkel was 28". The lock up on my Merkel was so tight it was a pain.

Anyhow enough rambling. My question(s) is to ask.... is there anything special to inspect on these older German SXS guns?
The gun is a Greener cross bolt box lock. We think it is a Sauer but no name on the gun. It has Krupp 29.5" barrels with short chambers,choked M&F. Very minimalistic engraving. It has a very nice straight (English) stock with a solid butt plate 14" LOP (the wood grain comparable to a Fox A/C or Parker D grade). The forend is a rather classy looking long but sleek semi beavertail with a schnabel.....similar to some of the early graded foxes. The gun is a non ejector.

The case hardening is pretty much worn on the receiver, but the barrel bluing is still in the 85-90% range. The stock is in really nice shape with what looks to be original finnish,sharp checkering, and still proud around the metal.

The barrel flats only have 6-8 small proof marks.....no photos yet.....it also has a marking which I could not read that looks like ROHN?. The barrels have a lot of markings ....Krupp Essen Fusthal......the barrels have a different # on them then the receiver.

I have seen very few of these German SXS with straight (English) stocks.

I know it is hard to make a judgement on exactly what this gun is without photos, but I know there are many knowledgeable people on this board who can make a pretty educated determination and recommendations. Any comments are appreciated.

Greypartridge,
You can expect tight chokes. The Rohn is an area in western Germany and some companys have it in their name or their address line.
Mike

Yes on on the chokes(they are often tight)

Things to look at:
*chamber length (usually, though not always marked (65mm is 2 1/2 inch)
*Bluing on barrel flats usually indicates a rebluing at some point (if reblued check ribs for rust and looseness
*Wall thickness if you have a gauge
*use a piece of wood as a snap cap to look at the firing pin impressions (you can check the function of the safety at the same time)
*with forend off check the looseness of the barrels (guns beginning to go off face often feel tight with the forend on, but reveal the beginnings of looseness with the forend off)
*get a feel for how the triggers feel (too heavy, too light, just right)
*look hard inside and out on barrels for dents (often a dent is repaired but a thin spot is left)
*look at the muzzles to ensure the tubes touch on the inside (if they don't the barrels maybe cut)
*verify the balance point (butt heavy can be a sign of cut barrels even if the barrels appear uncut)(29.5 is not an unusual length of barrel on a german gun, but you never know for sure)

German guns, like Belgian guns can be a really good value for the money as shooter, but I would not assume fixing it up and turning it around for money is very likely.

Thank you.
GP

old colonel,

Thank you. Once again you have been very knowledgeable and helpful.
Many good points....the barrel flats do not have blue.....would not have thought about that......same with forend off for checking for looseness

So far from pics it seems the gun has had minimal use.....
Are English stocked guns common?

English stocked German guns are not common. In my experience the German guns tend to have pistol grips and cheekpieces, but straight grip English style stocks are not unheard of and definitely more desirable to those who do not like the cheek piece stock. It is quite possible it is a restock, but that is really not that important in a shooter.

One thing I forgot to mention is checking on the smoothness of the cocking action (thus could detect leaf spring issue - which unlikely are still possible) to do this one barrel at a time you will need a snap cap. Fire on one barrel, leaving the other cocked open the action and gently recock the fired side. If one side is appreciably different it might indicate an issue.

I've had a couple of the described in 16ga, a few in 12 and one 20.
I still have a 12 that's GECO marked but it has a tiny Sauer marking on it. Does what it's supposed to do. Simple mechanicism, flat springs, tight chokes (common),
cheek piece stock.
The bottom tang has a silver solder repair to the extreme back end of it where the rear tang screw goes through but that doesn't effect it's use. Not noticable unless you remove the trigger guard.
Probably dropped while out of the wood at sometime. Small cracks to the upper stock ears on this one and they are not uncommon on these. Not uncommon on any boxlock really.
Just look them over and judge each gun on it's own.

A 16ga that could be the twin to the one you describe is now owned by a family member. It's fired thousands of rounds and still going just fine.
It too has a hairline crack on the right side upper stock 'ear' but it's been arrested and glued. No further problem.
They do kick due to the light weight. He shoots 9/16 and just barely heavier loads in his. Hunts and skeet shoots with it dispite the Fuller Bros chokes.

I have one other, a 20 ga ejector, that is a Sauer marked gun. Still needs a butt stock finish fitted,,a project in the works.

Some of the guns will have the standard sear pivoting on the lower back edge of the boxlock recv'r. Others will have 'overhanging' sears,,some tout them as superiour in function/ leverage, ect.
Whatever,,they are identified by their pivot screw being way up in the upper rear corner of the side of the frame right behind the fence.
They both work just fine.

Many have cocking inticators on the frame of one type or another. Some not.

Go over it as you would any other SxS and check for the normal wear, use, abuse signs.
Generally excellent guns and give long service.

Old colonel.....thanks for the update
Kutter.....thanks for your time and knowledge

I like light upland guns with long barrels , since they are carried way more than shot.
I will have the the chokes opened up to RT .07
LT .020

If you are 6'5", I think you will find 14" LOP to be short for you.

Here in the UK we see few German shotguns, but those we do see are respected for being well built and having fine handling. I have not heard of many problems, but getting spare parts (if needed) can be a problem. I ended up having to have parts made for my Merkel 303, which is expensive.

I have found that triggers pulls tend to be set on the heavy side with German guns.

The Rhon (transliterated to English "Rhoen") is an area of low mountains south of Fulda and north of Bad Kissingen. (For those who've been to Wildflecken, they've been there.) The Rhon is not far, as the crow flies, from Suhl. About 25 or 30 miles I suppose, southwest of Suhl.



My Simson 12 ga, 35E/70 is English-stocked. Shoots great, carries great.